Poor handling 06 Apex GT.

[NLP_Sled _Guy]

Last spring I bought a used 06 Apex GT. It was in pretty good shape. Needed both driver bearings. But I went thru pretty much everything. From donuts to valves, to all shocks rebuilt, all bearing and rebuilt rear skid. The entire suspension is all set back to stock except for the rear spring preload for my weight, about 230 lbs. Length of the rear spring is at just over 10 inches and shows about an inch and a half of travel as directed on this site. I have added a brand new set of C&A RZ skis with shaper bars. About 5mm toe out. New stock type track.

I have taken it out a couple of rides to try a few setup changes. Mainly the front spring preload and the coupling rod settings. Both back to stock currently.

The sled is a nightmare to drive. Darting and sliding under both acceleration and deceleration. Simply letting off the throttle causes the back to start coming around. It’s super loose in the rear. It’s all so messy that I can’t tell if the darting is caused by the rear jumping around or the front end. I imagine studs would help but that shouldn’t be needed to have a decent handling sled. If you pin the throttle it spins till you left off. Control rod is centered. Adding transfer to about 3/4 if helps acceleration but nothing for handling. Limiter strap is stock and has slack sitting on the ground.

What am I missing? Is this normal for this sled? I also have a 136 03 RX1 with all the same work but Simmons skis. It’s actually a pretty good handling sled. Yes, it’s noticeably better handling than an RX1.

 

[pdiddy]

Snowtracker runners should take care of the darting. If the snow is loose like it is here in ME spinning and sliding is gonna be an issue for everyone.

 

[steiner]

First thing you need to do is get a Big Boy spring for the rear shock. Stock spring is only good for 160.
Just to confirm , front springs are set to "0" pre load with the front end suspended, Limiter strap is in the second last hole and the transfer rod gap is about 1.5" ?

 

[NLP_Sled _Guy]

Thanks for the replies. Busy day.

I did have a problem with the sled during the test ride I didn’t mention. The sled would completely power off for about a second and come right back. Started doing it so much I was thinking it might die in the woods. It also started simply hunting off at idle. As if it was getting shut off. Not stalling. So I hunted down the ground blocks and didn’t see much until I got tithe three in the nose area. There was moisture under tape as I removed the tape. The grounds were fine, but there was a block for 5 volts DC that wasn’t. I’m assuming that was for sensors. I cleaned it up best I could and hit it with somecleaner and a dap of dielectric grease. Seems to run a bit better and hasn't hiccuped since. I’ll address them more permanent after the season.

Onto the suspension. The coupling rod was set to mid as per the spanner tool. It is now as in the picture, 1.5 inches. Front shocks are at the lowest preload in the manual which is very close to zero preload. I did find that all of shock adjusters were set to the numeric middle. They have now been set to factory as per the manual.

Rides fine in my yard. That doesn’t mean much. I’ll ride it ditch bang style a bit tomorrow.

I live fairly close to Schmidt Bros Racing. I have a call into them about a spring and revalve for the rear.

Thanks again.

 

[Fast]

Thanks for the replies. Busy day.

I did have a problem with the sled during the test ride I didn’t mention. The sled would completely power off for about a second and come right back. Started doing it so much I was thinking it might die in the woods. It also started simply hunting off at idle. As if it was getting shut off. Not stalling. So I hunted down the ground blocks and didn’t see much until I got tithe three in the nose area. There was moisture under tape as I removed the tape. The grounds were fine, but there was a block for 5 volts DC that wasn’t. I’m assuming that was for sensors. I cleaned it up best I could and hit it with somecleaner and a dap of dielectric grease. Seems to run a bit better and hasn't hiccuped since. I’ll address them more permanent after the season.

Onto the suspension. The coupling rod was set to mid as per the spanner tool. It is now as in the picture, 1.5 inches. Front shocks are at the lowest preload in the manual which is very close to zero preload. I did find that all of shock adjusters were set to the numeric middle. They have now been set to factory as per the manual.

Rides fine in my yard. That doesn’t mean much. I’ll ride it ditch bang style a bit tomorrow.

I live fairly close to Schmidt Bros Racing. I have a call into them about a spring and revalue for the rear.

Thanks again.

Set the coupling rod too max and shim the rear of your skis 3/16"

 

[NLP_Sled _Guy]

Set the coupling rod too max and shim the rear of your skis 3/16"

Cool. Coupling rod adjustments are easy.

I have Bergstrums shim in the stocks skis. I’ll see how thick they are.

With the talk of the rear springs I went out and looked for markings on the spring. Being almost 20 years old I suspected the spring may have already been replaced. Other clues: the sled has never bottomed on me thru several rides. In fact, it seemed pretty stiff. I also had a heck of a time tightening the spring adjuster ring even with the skid off the ground.

Some of the numbers on the spring we smudged and unreadable. But I could see 696 and 70 on the end. That should be 696-19 70. A 70 N/mm spring.

Sound possible?

Thanks all,

 

[NLP_Sled _Guy]

Just did about 15 min of ditch banging some pretty lumpy snow. Not even close to bottoming. It could definitely be softened up a bit. Otherwise it seems acceptable. A lot of low speed steering effort. I’m gonna guess it’s the skis.

I also added the shims. They measured about 5/32. So pushed them a bit forward on the rubbers. Should be close. Now to get it on the trail.

I’ll know more then. More snow coming!

Thanks!

 

[NLP_Sled _Guy]

Update to this. Completely loosened the mono shock spring. This was more difficult that you'd think. The spring someone installed is so firm that even that with almost zero preload the sled barely travels. I also misidentified the spring. While I can't read the middle numbers the last three are L107. Not what I previously thought. I was reading thru a small mirror.

I also ordered a set of C&A Pro RZ skis with the mounting kit and 6 inch Stud-Boy shaper bars. This made for the worst handling snowmobile ever made. Extreme darting and tracking. After contacting C&A Pro I found out that this is a common problem with this aggressive of a ski. Yes, I later did find reviews stating this. When I shopped on the C&A website there wasn't any mention of this. I only had put about 50-60 miles on them and they agreed to take the ski's back with a restocking fee. This equates to a major loss. Again, probably my bust for not doing even more research than I did. I have an RMA to return them but I may just resell them instead. (interested?) The sled got parked. The skid needs to be pulled and I'm going to have Chris Schmidt revalve the shock and get a progressive spring. I did put the stock skis with new Woodies duallies on and it was back to what I started with. Yes, skis were shimmed with Bergstrum skegs spacers. I even made more own and doubled up on them. Still an handful. I also double checked the alignment. About 5-6mm at the ski ends. Which isn't a lot. But when I research toe out there are different locations to measure this. At the carbides, at the tips. Even seen 10 inches fore and aft of the pivot bolt. All give different results.

I also have a 2003 RX1. It has the original Simmons Flexi-skis with 4 and 6 inch carbides. While it's not a spectaular rider it's much more controlled than the Apex. So I ordered a set of them for the Apex. They are here but with no rideable snow I'm in no hurry.

In case you are wondering I do have a baseline sled. A 2019 Ski-Doo Renegade with TS skis, Woodies Navigators and X shocks on the front. Same 5-6mm alignment. With only minor suspension adjustments for rider weight the sled can be riden one handed and only has minor movement on even bad trails. It can be ridden at even higher speeds relaxed. I don't fully expect that of these older machines, but reading these site I assume it can be done.

BTW, the RX1 broke a chain at 60-65 mph on the last ride of the season. That created some carnage to fix as well.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Macheater]

For skis, many including myself have had good luck with the Doo pilot skis, and running the snowtrackers. I personally run the wider 6.9 versions with the aggressive snowtrackers. They seem to give the best combination of light steering, straight tracking, acceptable bite, and great flotation in deeper snow.

 

[Teamblue4]

First thing you need to do is get a Big Boy spring for the rear shock. Stock spring is only good for 160.
Just to confirm , front springs are set to "0" pre load with the front end suspended, Limiter strap is in the second last hole and the transfer rod gap is about 1.5" ?
View attachment 177923

and skis toed out.

 

[earthling]

Snowtrackers will completely change the handling of the sled, no more darting, less steering effort, longer lasting... etc..

 

[NLP_Sled _Guy]

and skis toed out.

and skis toed out.

 

[NLP_Sled _Guy]

I expected to delete that empty post.

The sled is toed out almost a 1/4 inch.