sportster64
Pro
I see there is lots of talk on idler wheels and track noise. It seems the general consensus is that putting the larger skid frame idlers on helps with track noise as well as hyfax wear ?
Also if you replace the idlers with the larger 5.375" x 25mm wheels (135mm x 25mm) , the stock yamaha wheels are 5.125" x 20mm or 130mm x 20mm, are you just replacing the 4 front skid frame idlers ?
These replacement wheels are 25mm versus the yamaha 20mm - are they a direct bolt on or do you need to make mods ??
And for those that are adding an extra pair of the 5.375 x25mm wheels between the skid frame idlers and the rear axle idlers (like the yamaha minimum snow wheel kit)- is there a list of part numbers somewhere for the mounting hardware you would need to mount those wheels - I'm not sure where you would get the mounting blocks - I think someone mention using ski-soo hardware somewhere.
Also if you replace the idlers with the larger 5.375" x 25mm wheels (135mm x 25mm) , the stock yamaha wheels are 5.125" x 20mm or 130mm x 20mm, are you just replacing the 4 front skid frame idlers ?
These replacement wheels are 25mm versus the yamaha 20mm - are they a direct bolt on or do you need to make mods ??
And for those that are adding an extra pair of the 5.375 x25mm wheels between the skid frame idlers and the rear axle idlers (like the yamaha minimum snow wheel kit)- is there a list of part numbers somewhere for the mounting hardware you would need to mount those wheels - I'm not sure where you would get the mounting blocks - I think someone mention using ski-soo hardware somewhere.
i used pol. wheels and machined factory stubshafts to accept the wider bearings on all six wheels
Grimm
TY 4 Stroke God
I bought larger (5.375") Kimpex brand wheels with the larger bearings. I had the stock outer idler mounts machined down 2mm (didn't machine down 3mm as I was concerned of of trimming off too much and lessening it's structural integrity) to accept the wider bearings and used a couple of washers to make up the difference when mounted them back onto the rails.
For the inner idler wheels, each mount has to be machined down 1.5mm and another 1.5mm on each side of the arm pivot bracket (see microfiche diagram part #23). This will keep the idler wheels centered between the drive lugs on the inside of the track.
I used Skidoo mounting brackets (I don't have the part numbers) for the extra wheels and drilled a couple of extra holes in the rails to accept them. These mounts don't have to be machined as they already accept the wider bearing.
I also opted to change out the rear axle wheels with the same size (I think 7") Kimpex wheel, but larger bearings required the mounts to be machined down as well. The Kimpex wheels were a tiny bit larger than the stock ones, despite claims by the manufacturer as being identical size as stock.
For the inner idler wheels, each mount has to be machined down 1.5mm and another 1.5mm on each side of the arm pivot bracket (see microfiche diagram part #23). This will keep the idler wheels centered between the drive lugs on the inside of the track.
I used Skidoo mounting brackets (I don't have the part numbers) for the extra wheels and drilled a couple of extra holes in the rails to accept them. These mounts don't have to be machined as they already accept the wider bearing.
I also opted to change out the rear axle wheels with the same size (I think 7") Kimpex wheel, but larger bearings required the mounts to be machined down as well. The Kimpex wheels were a tiny bit larger than the stock ones, despite claims by the manufacturer as being identical size as stock.
sportster64
Pro
Grim - aren't the kimpex wheels uusing 6205 bearings ? If so - I thought they were 3mm wider than the stock 6005 bearings ? SO - wouldn't you only take 1.5mm off on the mount blocks and 1.5 mm off on each end of the idler shaft ? not 2.5 but 1.5 ???
The 25mm vs 20mm is the measurement of the Inside Diameter of the wheel - correct ?
So do you use Idler whhel bushings to make up the difference so your bolt will fit in there llike it was 20mm ?
The 25mm vs 20mm is the measurement of the Inside Diameter of the wheel - correct ?
So do you use Idler whhel bushings to make up the difference so your bolt will fit in there llike it was 20mm ?
Grimm
TY 4 Stroke God
removed
sportster64
Pro
what about the 20mm vs 25 mm difference of the Inside Diameter of the bearings ?
DO you just use a different bolt or I think I've seen those Idler wheel bushing inserts in catalogs you can put into the wheel to allow for different sizes.
If using a different bolt - is it the same length as the old ones - just different diameter ?
DO you just use a different bolt or I think I've seen those Idler wheel bushing inserts in catalogs you can put into the wheel to allow for different sizes.
If using a different bolt - is it the same length as the old ones - just different diameter ?
jimmie d
TY 4 Stroke Master
I put the 03/04 RX1 wheels on my Attak and all was fine.
Jim
Jim
PJVMAX
Extreme
I was considering changing my idler wheels also, but when I pulled my skid the stock idlers were still in good shape after 2k miles so I'm just cleaning and regreasing them. Can anyone recommend a good grease for this? What are the advantages of replacing the stock idlers with larger wheels and bearings? I really have no issues with the stock ones.
maddogjeff
Expert
Interesting post in the Apex/Attack forum -
Quote
Just got the call my 07 RTX is in (yee ha)! Now I just need to find a windshield!!!
Info - My buddy is a Yamaha certified mechanic and he just attended his anual Yamaha training on the new 07 sleds etc. He came away with some insight on some of the 06 issues some of us here experienced.
It started with some of the techs wanting some answers on some of the issues we experienced. Several asked/complained about the loud clunking on the mono skid. Yamaha's response was it's the transfer rod (we knew that), they said they tried several different materials to quite it down and all have failed. They then told the techs to tell their customers it's normal and to live with it. Several techs replied that yamaha's answer was unacceptable - Yamaha brags about quality, retails the Apex for over $10,000 and trys to convince the consumer they are buying a high end snowmobile yet it sounds like the rear skid is falling out when going slow over chatter bumps. No repair in sight.
Next topic was the wheel delaminating issue. My mechanic bud had a new Apex last year and on his first trip two of the inner wheels didn't make it 80mi and the rubber was chunked off the wheels! Yamaha stated they had a vender issue and that there was a clearence issue in the skid causing the wheels to over heat. Techs were told to replace defective wheels with all plastic ones. Techs stated that costomers complained of excessive track noise when the plastic wheels were installed and that the customers weren't satisfied with the all plastic wheels and that the techs voiced a conceren on why Yamaha didn't replace all internal wheels on apex's last year when they new they had a problem? Yamaha's answer replace the wheels as they fail!
Next issue was the 100% coolant claim. Yamaha reps said it's all internet BS and that no apex's were shipped with 100% coolant. The highest ratio that may have been shipped was supposedly 85/15 ratio. So Yamaha's answer = Internet BS
Next issue - non performing hand warmers. Again, techs complained about the reference to a high end snowmobile and the grips work mediocore at best. Yamaha's answer - we've addressed this by offering an update kit to apex owners at a small charge. Techs responded with - yamahas response is BS. Someone supposedly stated that even if they bought the lowest quality Hundai for $8000 the heater better damn well work!
In a nut shell many of the techs were unhappy with yamaha's response to their questions on last years Apex issues. All Yamaha wanted to do was talk about the Phazer.
Has me wondering about Yamaha's committment to quality and their customers????
Unquote http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... highlight=
This really confirms my current belief that you need to solve any problem on your own and not wait for Yamaha to come up with a solution. After the '05 bogey wheel problem I waited for Yamaha to come up with an update. They put the '06 wheels on and we all know how good those '06 wheels were. There are people waiting on Yamaha for a fix to thr '06's but according to this post, there is none (the '05 wheels are not a solution if you're studded). Well, when the '06 wheels failed within 400 miles I gave up on Yamaha and put Doo wheels on, 2000 miles later they look and idle like new and cost half the price. You would have thought that Yamaha at least monitors this site to get some insight on the issues and in this case simply changed thier bogey wheel supplier. Very disappointing.
Thank you TY4stroke for providing this forum and a place to find solutions to our problems.
I finally gave up after the '06 wheels fell apart within 400 miles, machined the mounts, put Doo wheels on which only cost $20/each and they've lasted now for 2000 miles and look and run like new. YO, Yamaha, why do your wheels cost 3 times as much and only last 1/3 of the miles?
The Doo and Poo wheel bearings are .120 (3mm) wider so for the inner wheels the bearing mounts have to machined .060 and the shock mount brackets have to turned down the same on each side to keep the wheels centered. Any machine shop can easily do this on a lathe, it took my quy an hour to do all 8 cuts. But then there is the hassle of pulling the skid which isn't too hard for the Venture. The outer wheels just need a longer bolt, Yami part# SMA-8EK38-01:95817-10085-00. Doo wheel part# 503190802.
Quote
Just got the call my 07 RTX is in (yee ha)! Now I just need to find a windshield!!!
Info - My buddy is a Yamaha certified mechanic and he just attended his anual Yamaha training on the new 07 sleds etc. He came away with some insight on some of the 06 issues some of us here experienced.
It started with some of the techs wanting some answers on some of the issues we experienced. Several asked/complained about the loud clunking on the mono skid. Yamaha's response was it's the transfer rod (we knew that), they said they tried several different materials to quite it down and all have failed. They then told the techs to tell their customers it's normal and to live with it. Several techs replied that yamaha's answer was unacceptable - Yamaha brags about quality, retails the Apex for over $10,000 and trys to convince the consumer they are buying a high end snowmobile yet it sounds like the rear skid is falling out when going slow over chatter bumps. No repair in sight.
Next topic was the wheel delaminating issue. My mechanic bud had a new Apex last year and on his first trip two of the inner wheels didn't make it 80mi and the rubber was chunked off the wheels! Yamaha stated they had a vender issue and that there was a clearence issue in the skid causing the wheels to over heat. Techs were told to replace defective wheels with all plastic ones. Techs stated that costomers complained of excessive track noise when the plastic wheels were installed and that the customers weren't satisfied with the all plastic wheels and that the techs voiced a conceren on why Yamaha didn't replace all internal wheels on apex's last year when they new they had a problem? Yamaha's answer replace the wheels as they fail!
Next issue was the 100% coolant claim. Yamaha reps said it's all internet BS and that no apex's were shipped with 100% coolant. The highest ratio that may have been shipped was supposedly 85/15 ratio. So Yamaha's answer = Internet BS
Next issue - non performing hand warmers. Again, techs complained about the reference to a high end snowmobile and the grips work mediocore at best. Yamaha's answer - we've addressed this by offering an update kit to apex owners at a small charge. Techs responded with - yamahas response is BS. Someone supposedly stated that even if they bought the lowest quality Hundai for $8000 the heater better damn well work!
In a nut shell many of the techs were unhappy with yamaha's response to their questions on last years Apex issues. All Yamaha wanted to do was talk about the Phazer.
Has me wondering about Yamaha's committment to quality and their customers????
Unquote http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... highlight=
This really confirms my current belief that you need to solve any problem on your own and not wait for Yamaha to come up with a solution. After the '05 bogey wheel problem I waited for Yamaha to come up with an update. They put the '06 wheels on and we all know how good those '06 wheels were. There are people waiting on Yamaha for a fix to thr '06's but according to this post, there is none (the '05 wheels are not a solution if you're studded). Well, when the '06 wheels failed within 400 miles I gave up on Yamaha and put Doo wheels on, 2000 miles later they look and idle like new and cost half the price. You would have thought that Yamaha at least monitors this site to get some insight on the issues and in this case simply changed thier bogey wheel supplier. Very disappointing.
Thank you TY4stroke for providing this forum and a place to find solutions to our problems.
I finally gave up after the '06 wheels fell apart within 400 miles, machined the mounts, put Doo wheels on which only cost $20/each and they've lasted now for 2000 miles and look and run like new. YO, Yamaha, why do your wheels cost 3 times as much and only last 1/3 of the miles?
The Doo and Poo wheel bearings are .120 (3mm) wider so for the inner wheels the bearing mounts have to machined .060 and the shock mount brackets have to turned down the same on each side to keep the wheels centered. Any machine shop can easily do this on a lathe, it took my quy an hour to do all 8 cuts. But then there is the hassle of pulling the skid which isn't too hard for the Venture. The outer wheels just need a longer bolt, Yami part# SMA-8EK38-01:95817-10085-00. Doo wheel part# 503190802.
sportster64
Pro
maddog - I understand the wider (3mm) issue of the bearings, but can anyone answer if there is a problem with the doo and poo wheels being 25mm Inside bearing Diameter vs Yamaha'a wheels being 20mm ID ?
maddogjeff
Expert
In my case the inside diameters were the same. I'm not an expert but it seemed that bearings have standard designations. My Venture used 6005, the Doo and Poo wheels use 6205's, the difference being the width, the inner dia. are the same.
sportster64
Pro
Hmm - Actually there should be 5mm difference in the ID of the bearing between the yamaha 6005 20mm ID bearings and the 6205 25mm ID bearings . KIMPEX wheels are 25mm I know. But I'm just going from the specs - if you say the stock bolt works on the 6205 bearings - that's what I wanted to hear then. Possibly the wheels you bought may have had the reducer bushings in them . Some wheels you buy include them and tell you to disregard them and take them out if you don't need them.
Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong .
Thanks.
Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong .
Thanks.
maddogjeff
Expert
The last 2 digits of a 4 digit bearing number designates the inside diameter. In this case it's 05, and all 05's have a 25mm ID. So your's is not a 6005 or you're getting the spec wrong, have you actually measured it?
sportster64
Pro
No I haven't. So the stock bearing 6005's and the 6205 are both 25mm ID
not 20mm ID like I thought then.
That would explain my confusion !!
not 20mm ID like I thought then.
That would explain my confusion !!
Grimm
TY 4 Stroke God
Yes I used the stock bolts and no bushings were required. I re-edited my edited post to reflect proper dimensions. I thought something was fishy.
Maddogjeff is correct. the 6005 and 6205 bearing have an equal inside diameter, but it is the width of the bearings that are different by 3 mm.
Maddogjeff is correct. the 6005 and 6205 bearing have an equal inside diameter, but it is the width of the bearings that are different by 3 mm.
