Sidewinder LTX SE vs 17 ZR900 vs 17 MXZ X 850

[Kris711]

Maxed out at 96? You must have been in a lot of snow huh?

I have noticed that they do slow quite a bit when in 4-5" of snow but still should get more then 96 speedo wise.

When we raced the two turbos we were on a bad part of the lake. The snow was 3-4" deep and rolling, we were catching some air so I'm not to concerned about the top speed we reached. I just don't feel the top end and mid range pull are what they're supposed to be. The sidewinder feels like it's pulling strong the first 2/3's of the throttle but when I go full throttle even at 50-60 it feels flat. Could the track be spinning?


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[Mighty]

96? Something is wrong. I have no problem hitting triple digits very, very quickly

 

[Motorhead]

When we raced the two turbos we were on a bad part of the lake. The snow was 3-4" deep and rolling, we were catching some air so I'm not to concerned about the top speed we reached. I just don't feel the top end and mid range pull are what they're supposed to be. The sidewinder feels like it's pulling strong the first 2/3's of the throttle but when I go full throttle even at 50-60 it feels flat. Could the track be spinning?


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My midrange is like nothing I have felt on a stock sled before.

I have been on a well groomed trail during a snow storm and found that in 4-5 inches of fresh snow, I had a hard time getting it to 110 on speedo. But 96 only, huh? Snow conditions do change the way sleds perform.

 

[Kris711]

It wasn't just my sled the 9000 was performing the same way. I've checked to make sure all the hoses are correct per the post by turbo dynamics, just had the 500 mile service done, and a new belt with about 150 miles on it. Any ideas what else I can check? Everything I've read says these should beat the 850 easily. I can see the 850 jumping out on it but the 9000 couldn't catch it on top either


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[up.mi.man]

all i have to say is this doesnt add up i have raced 5 850s and have never has any problem beating them i had one that was clutched and re geared get me for maybe 100' and after that the race was done.

 

[WinterWolf]

When we raced the two turbos we were on a bad part of the lake. The snow was 3-4" deep and rolling, we were catching some air so I'm not to concerned about the top speed we reached. I just don't feel the top end and mid range pull are what they're supposed to be. The sidewinder feels like it's pulling strong the first 2/3's of the throttle but when I go full throttle even at 50-60 it feels flat. Could the track be spinning?


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I would take that thing back to the dealer so fast. Something is definitely wrong there. My 2007 Apex GT would bury both those turbos...and that shouldn't be the case. I just ordered an 18 RTX LE 50th anniversary Winder, and I sure hope it doesn't perform like you're describing..cuz if that's the case maybe I should back out???

 

[kviper]

When we raced the two turbos we were on a bad part of the lake. The snow was 3-4" deep and rolling, we were catching some air so I'm not to concerned about the top speed we reached. I just don't feel the top end and mid range pull are what they're supposed to be. The sidewinder feels like it's pulling strong the first 2/3's of the throttle but when I go full throttle even at 50-60 it feels flat. Could the track be spinning?


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3-4" of loose snow! Loose snow is an equalizer. If you don't have anything changed from the way it came you're just spinning and setting the skis in the snow and it will feel like a dog. Doo's transfer weight very easy in fact some will say to easy. Also sounds like you weren't on the same conditions as the Doo and that's huge. Plenty of talk in here about how to get that skid to transfer then get on some equal hard pack and race.

 

[snowbeast]

I didn't notice during the races but the sidewinder jumps up to 9100 then settles at 8900


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Well,that seems kinda high,if it don't calm down some,should be 8700-8800 max on stocker,but I would think 8900 would still be better than 8400 on some. Now have you taken both clutches apart and checked for problems yet? Do you have a lot of belt dust,not that that is any special kind of indicator though,seems mine has a lot of belt dust to,and only has 630 miles on belt. Check to see if clutches are shifting out,and or may be binding,and causing rpms to rise some. You have something wrong.

 

[snowbeast]

I didn't notice during the races but the sidewinder jumps up to 9100 then settles at 8900


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My son has same sled you have,and now has 500 miles on it,all stock,except did change rollers to cat ones. He runs 8700-8800 and rip right to 122-125 speedo on very hard road.

 

[Kris711]

Well,that seems kinda high,if it don't calm down some,should be 8700-8800 max on stocker,but I would think 8900 would still be better than 8400 on some. Now have you taken both clutches apart and checked for problems yet? Do you have a lot of belt dust,not that that is any special kind of indicator though,seems mine has a lot of belt dust to,and only has 630 miles on belt. Check to see if clutches are shifting out,and or may be binding,and causing rpms to rise some. You have something wrong.

I brought it to the dealer and had them do look into the clutches. I blew a belt around 550 miles and yes I had a #*$&@ load of dust inside and outside before I dropped it off. A Yamaha rep was there when they were going through it and he gave me a new belt for free and wanted to know the conditions when it blew. They say the offset was at 61.1mm and did the 500 mile service. I rode it the next weekend 150 miles and there wasn't any dust. I don't see any flat spots and only a little of the primary spring is missing paint.


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[JestersYamacat]

Two things that will come into play when you get loose snow from my experience. The first is you will cause the secondary to overshift as you are spinning and loosin traction and if you have coil bind in there it will stop top end for sure. The fix for this is to place washers on the towers under the cover. You will need to flat side one edge so that it allows the cover to seat. You will also need to shim for belt as it will drop a little in the secondary. I really don't like the long primary spring that comes stock. As they compress they bulge out and bind up. you are seeing this with the paint missing. Two fixes are relieve the spring cups or change to a shorter spring. I chose the second idea and purchased the XYZ stage one for stock sleds. Comes with adjustable Dalton weights and much shorter spring. It raises the engagement and increase the lower range operating rpm which really cleans up the bottom end as it spools earlier and pulls exceptionally hard for a stocker. Highly recommend it to anyone as it flat works. Mine will pull away pretty hard on a stocker now bottom to top in regular hard conditions. In spots where the stocker will pull 105 on long straights mine will pull past 110 and do so without struggling at all. On a warmer day in loose snow he could only pull 96 and mine 110 and increasing which makes me think that clutching was most definitely not optimal for loose snow or warmer conditions as it exasperates the minor problems that already exist in both clutches. Just my 2 C

 

[Kris711]

Two things that will come into play when you get loose snow from my experience. The first is you will cause the secondary to overshift as you are spinning and loosin traction and if you have coil bind in there it will stop top end for sure. The fix for this is to place washers on the towers under the cover. You will need to flat side one edge so that it allows the cover to seat. You will also need to shim for belt as it will drop a little in the secondary. I really don't like the long primary spring that comes stock. As they compress they bulge out and bind up. you are seeing this with the paint missing. Two fixes are relieve the spring cups or change to a shorter spring. I chose the second idea and purchased the XYZ stage one for stock sleds. Comes with adjustable Dalton weights and much shorter spring. It raises the engagement and increase the lower range operating rpm which really cleans up the bottom end as it spools earlier and pulls exceptionally hard for a stocker. Highly recommend it to anyone as it flat works. Mine will pull away pretty hard on a stocker now bottom to top in regular hard conditions. In spots where the stocker will pull 105 on long straights mine will pull past 110 and do so without struggling at all. On a warmer day in loose snow he could only pull 96 and mine 110 and increasing which makes me think that clutching was most definitely not optimal for loose snow or warmer conditions as it exasperates the minor problems that already exist in both clutches. Just my 2 C

Ok thank you. I bought a helix from thunder product and I'm waiting for them to get more clutch kits in stock. Looks like the season is just about over up here so I'll be getting it ready for next season


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[ROCKERDAN]

Two things that will come into play when you get loose snow from my experience. The first is you will cause the secondary to overshift as you are spinning and loosin traction and if you have coil bind in there it will stop top end for sure. The fix for this is to place washers on the towers under the cover. You will need to flat side one edge so that it allows the cover to seat. You will also need to shim for belt as it will drop a little in the secondary. I really don't like the long primary spring that comes stock. As they compress they bulge out and bind up. you are seeing this with the paint missing. Two fixes are relieve the spring cups or change to a shorter spring. I chose the second idea and purchased the XYZ stage one for stock sleds. Comes with adjustable Dalton weights and much shorter spring. It raises the engagement and increase the lower range operating rpm which really cleans up the bottom end as it spools earlier and pulls exceptionally hard for a stocker. Highly recommend it to anyone as it flat works. Mine will pull away pretty hard on a stocker now bottom to top in regular hard conditions. In spots where the stocker will pull 105 on long straights mine will pull past 110 and do so without struggling at all. On a warmer day in loose snow he could only pull 96 and mine 110 and increasing which makes me think that clutching was most definitely not optimal for loose snow or warmer conditions as it exasperates the minor problems that already exist in both clutches. Just my 2 C

Hey bud......

Nice to hear some feedback on XYZ kit from someone I trust. Have not heard a heck of alot on it. What does stage 1 include? Im guessing primary spring and the dalton weights? Anything else like glide washers or secondary items? Do you happen to know what BASE WEIGHT Daltons you got? I Ran the 70g and tried them empty to loaded, Did not stick with them as I was trying to solve the "delay" issue and later we went to Thunder kit with the HHs. Delay never got cured really. I do like the Daltons for ease of adjustement and may run them in mine next season.

Were you stock with this clutch kit?

thanks
Dan