snowmobile safety

[earthling]

I was thinking about the whole debate that surrounds snowmobile safety and whether we should be taking a hand off of the bars to tell oncoming sleds how many people are in our group. The lighted solutions turn this into what I think of as a passive solution because the lights don't tell you how many sleds to expect, only that there are more (keep hitting yellow until you hit the last green light). The cost of these solutions is too high in my opinion to allow them to achieve majority adoption and not everyone wants to drill/mount something on their sled permanently. They are however, a good solution. The 'what if' thinking goes like this;

If we reduce the problem set down to its most basic components, its either a green light or an amber one, couldn't we further reduce this to just green or yellow and turn this into an armband (at its most basic functionality). You have an armband that you are required to wear, its a 4-5" wide strap of highly reflective either green or yellow material that itself is affixed back to itself by velcro or magnets. You put the armband on by putting the strap around your arm and the band through a flattened metal loop and by attaching the armband back on itself one way the yellow is on the outside, the other way green is on the outside. To go from one to another would take literally less than a second. Grip, rip, flip, attach. You can always get fancier and put an LED (or three) in it for nighttime and even improved daytime visibility. It could be cheap enough that there is some chance of mass adoption with the daytime (no LED) ones being super cheap to make and even an LED one with either a small battery or a jack like your heated visor jack would be very cheap.

Just a thought.

 

[TrueBlue]

I was thinking about the whole debate that surrounds snowmobile safety and whether we should be taking a hand off of the bars to tell oncoming sleds how many people are in our group. The lighted solutions turn this into what I think of as a passive solution because the lights don't tell you how many sleds to expect, only that there are more (keep hitting yellow until you hit the last green light). The cost of these solutions is too high in my opinion to allow them to achieve majority adoption and not everyone wants to drill/mount something on their sled permanently. They are however, a good solution. The 'what if' thinking goes like this;

If we reduce the problem set down to its most basic components, its either a green light or an amber one, couldn't we further reduce this to just green or yellow and turn this into an armband (at its most basic functionality). You have an armband that you are required to wear, its a 4-5" wide strap of highly reflective either green or yellow material that itself is affixed back to itself by velcro or magnets. You put the armband on by putting the strap around your arm and the band through a flattened metal loop and by attaching the armband back on itself one way the yellow is on the outside, the other way green is on the outside. To go from one to another would take literally less than a second. Grip, rip, flip, attach. You can always get fancier and put an LED (or three) in it for nighttime and even improved daytime visibility. It could be cheap enough that there is some chance of mass adoption with the daytime (no LED) ones being super cheap to make and even an LED one with either a small battery or a jack like your heated visor jack would be very cheap.

Just a thought.

Thank's but no thank's

 

[74Nitro]

I sometimes wear mitts, so hand signalling is mostly pointless for me.
This was never taught when I took my snowmobiler safety course before I was 16.
I think it's a good idea to do in certain conditions like hidden curves in forested areas, but for the most part I think people are capable of seeing what's going on and what's coming at them.
I've caught up to groups before without them realizing I'm behind them, and the rider that I've caught up to is then signalling that he/she is the last rider....

 

[earthling]

LOL, I have had the same experience only for the rider coming from the opposite direction point at me behind 'the last guy' and give a should shrug. Ontario officially frowns on hand signals. Some of our trails are truly goat paths and many are two wide. I think some way of signaling is important but it seems silly to take a hand off the bar when control is at its most important.

 

[Mooseman]

This has been a continuous debate. I signal if I can where it's a benefit. Long straightaways, like railroad beds, are pointless. Noticed that a lot don't signal or are clueless. I signal and the person just waves. Not everybody knows about them and a lot now don't care.

Found this article. Very telling for abolishing the signals.

Snowmobile Hand Signal Debate • NH Snowmobile Association

The snowmobile hand signal debate has raged on for the past few decades. While some organizations endorse snowmobile hand signals to communicate, others argue that you should never take your hands of the handlebars. A few winters back I was out on snowmobile patrol in Pillsbury State Park in...

nhsa.com

And there's the debate about what do you signal when you have people behind you not in your group?

I'm reevaluating my use of the signals.

As far as those lights are concerned, not enough use them and if some don't know what the hand signals are for, this is worse. Somebody is making way too much money on these. C'mon, $89-125USD for one of those? Probably costs $10 to make.

Arm band? Same deal and what happens when people switch positions? Stop, swap arm bands? Nobody will do this. As a side note, there are dog collars with rechargeable LEDs already like this. Another thing to recharge every night? Yeah sure.

In any case, I always ride on the right and as if there's always another sled coming ahead, especially in curves.

 

[STAIN]

Vermont doesn't want you to use hand signals.
I have seen people try to signal me and start to lose control of their sled.
Keep your hands on the bars.

 

[earthling]

This has been a continuous debate. I signal if I can where it's a benefit. Long straightaways, like railroad beds, are pointless. Noticed that a lot don't signal or are clueless. I signal and the person just waves. Not everybody knows about them and a lot now don't care.

Found this article. Very telling for abolishing the signals.

Snowmobile Hand Signal Debate • NH Snowmobile Association

The snowmobile hand signal debate has raged on for the past few decades. While some organizations endorse snowmobile hand signals to communicate, others argue that you should never take your hands of the handlebars. A few winters back I was out on snowmobile patrol in Pillsbury State Park in...

nhsa.com

And there's the debate about what do you signal when you have people behind you not in your group?

I'm reevaluating my use of the signals.

As far as those lights are concerned, not enough use them and if some don't know what the hand signals are for, this is worse. Somebody is making way too much money on these. C'mon, $89-125USD for one of those? Probably costs $10 to make.

Arm band? Same deal and what happens when people switch positions? Stop, swap arm bands? Nobody will do this. As a side note, there are dog collars with rechargeable LEDs already like this. Another thing to recharge every night? Yeah sure.

In any case, I always ride on the right and as if there's always another sled coming ahead, especially in curves.

With the armband you do exactly as I describe. Grip, rip, flip, stick.

Imagine the end opposite the buckle is green on one flat side, yellow on the other.

You pull the tag end through the loop and either wrap it back on itself to show one color or just continue around following the loop direction to show the other. It will take 1/2 second to switch colors. No need to swap arm bands, just make a quick adjustment to your own and off you go.

The signals are useful on tight trails, its just that taking your hands off the bars to hold one up until people go by is silly, you might as well just pull over.

As far as lighting goes, if you wanted to light them all you need is to have them share the circuit with the heated visor. No charging necessary.

 

[maim]

i use these by @Rockmeister as i prefer the newbies that i am showing how fun sledding is to have them on the sled they are riding.

mine are all mounted with velcro on the hood of the sled on the left and i use a y splitter to my visor heater cord. much cheaper than the other ones i have seen.

he stands behind his stuff as i have had a few fail on one colour and he is giving me new ones under warenty. i admit i use everything to its limits at times and his stuff stands up well to my abuse.

 

[sailor joe]

Rocktoyz has a light for $40-45 US...peanuts for a bit more safety for other riders and myself. This is an expensive sport when you add it all up...I got mine from BOP, they support this site and are a valuable resource for parts and innovation.

 

[GR8BBQ]

I made my own, and made them out of RGB LEDs so I can set them to green, yellow or any color I choose with a remote control. I put one on right and left sides to balance.

 

[1nc 2000]

The title of this thread should be "How not to be safe " if you use hand signals.
What gets me is when they do it in the dark.
Just makes me shake my head.
Ride on your own side of the trail and slow down for limited sight areas.
Where we ride the groomers run day and night.

 

[earthling]

The title of this thread should be "How not to be safe " if you use hand signals.
What gets me is when they do it in the dark.
Just makes me shake my head.
Ride on your own side of the trail and slow down for limited sight areas.
Where we ride the groomers run day and night.

That is kind of my point. Hand signals are not safe. I can see this coming to a head at some point where the clubs are under pressure from the public to solve issues like rider safety, landowner rights, etc.. We lost a member to an oncoming rider this last season and the topic came up again including the topics of lights and hand signals.

 

[steiner]

I like the light idea but it has to come from the manufacturer and some sort of purchaser training in order for them to be effective. One in 3000 sleds will not impact the sport or its riders to make a positive impact for safety. Most will be confused of the extra light or not care.

 

[mysledblows]

If I had a dollar for everyone that has about clipped me while they are riding in the middle or on my side, sliding sideways around the corner, eyes as big as dinner plates, while trying to use their hand signals I’d have a new horse to ride.

 

[mysledblows]

I also love it when a group is basically riding nose to tail and every one of them counts down till the last one gives the fist. Yep - I can see all of you since there’s not more than a couple sled lengths between you. And like was said earlier - half the time when they fist ya there is another group right on their tail.