SRX dual rate front springs

[1nc 2000]

From what I can tell your Hygear twisted springs don't look like the stock ones , that have the softer part compressed ?
Do you have a picture of yours ?

Here are the twisted spring set up from hygear on my sled.
They have two separate springs on each shock.

 

[1nc 2000]

Here's a better picture.

 

[earthling]

From what I can tell your Hygear twisted springs don't look like the stock ones , that have the softer part compressed ?
Do you have a picture of yours ?

There are two ways to make progressive or multi-rate springs. A single piece spring (one piece of metal) that has varying pitch (twists get tighter and tighter twists are easier to compress) or stacking separate springs of different gauges with different linear spring rates (one will be softer than the other). With the hygear, its the latter. The compromise and the reason you would choose one over the other is based on your intended use. If you are mostly a lake racer and groomed trail rider and you care the most about control at speed the easiest way to dial in your sled is to use a single linear spring. The springs on the SRX basically act like a linear spring on smooth flat surfaces because the softer rate portion is compressed most of the time, but they do have a little softer spring rate when things get choppy as the shock will open up allowing that softer rate spring to extend. In bigger bumps the softer rate (tighter coils) will have little benefit. If you want a more trail oriented sled (less super smooth surfaces) then the hygear dual rate (its really dual single rate) springs are another middle ground. You want the softer spring to not be compressed so that you always have some give in the initial part of the shock stroke and when you max out the softer spring you have the stiffer spring for the bigger shock stroke. The compromise here is that a spring cannot be both soft, and highly reactive or stiff and comfortable. A shock will always use the softest spring (or part thereof) first so that initial stroke is forgiving, but not as reactive as it could be. Typical dual (or triple) single linear springs result in a ride experience where you can feel the transition between one and the next. You can smooth this out somewhat with compression/rebound settings but then you are just introducing hysteresis into the springs reactivity. (you are filtering the transition excessively).

 

[1nc 2000]

How it Works Twisted Spring Kits

www.hygearsuspension.com

 

[1nc 2000]

Great video explaining dual rate springs here.

 

[WinderFab]

Great video explaining dual rate springs here.

I’ve been to john’s shop many times in my YZ days, Great guy and very knowledgeable in suspension talk.

 

[Fast]

I installed the stock dual rate springs from a 2019 SRX on the ski shocks on our 2018 SW LE a few seasons ago. For anyone who has a '17 or '18 SW LE I wouldn't hesitate to give them a try if you're looking for a better handling sled.

They work awesome with the Kashima coated Fox QS-3R shocks that came with the sled. The springs have slightly more sit it or sag than the stock springs that make the sled slightly lower for better handling but still offer the same bump compliance that the stock springs have without bottoming out on a whooped out trail.

This sled also has an aftermarket widening kit and with the dual rate springs actually handles better than my '21 SRX, although I give the nod to the '21 with the electronically adjustable on the fly shocks when the trails get really beat up.

View attachment 165312

Just wondering why you put the springs on upside down? The tight coils should be at the top so you can slide the rubber stop back down when checking if the bottomed

 

[STAIN]

This sled also has an aftermarket widening kit and with the dual rate springs

PEASE TELL US MORE ABOUT THIS KIT!!!!

 

[STAIN]

Here's a better picture.

View attachment 165332

It looks like you really have the cross-over tube set up pretty soft.
what do you use for tools to adjust that cross-over tube? I had to make a tool for mine on my Viper.

 

[1nc 2000]

It looks like you really have the cross-over tube set up pretty soft.
what do you use for tools to adjust that cross-over tube? I had to make a tool for mine on my Viper.

I have been playing with different ski runners to see what I like. I have only adjusted them once in the garage with no weight on skiis.
Didn't use any special tools at that time.

 

[earthling]

Great video explaining dual rate springs here.

It is a good video but nothing he said contradicted anything I said. But to put it in context. The crossover spacer (referred to as crossover gap I on the hygear site) sets when the tender spring will bottom out. By having a longer spacer you are limiting the amount of compression of the tender spring (softer spring), after which that springs is as compressed as much as the crossover spacer will allow, then the main spring kicks in.

Dual rate btw, and I find this confuses people the most, dual rate refers to the combined spring rating where the first rate is less than the sum of the individual springs (that is the first rate) and the second rate is the complete main spring by itself. The total rate is equal to less than the main spring at first then it is the full main spring second.

On the SRX, there is no crossover spacer gap when the sled is just sitting there so the tighter portion of the coil is nearly fully compressed with the weight of the sled at rest, however, when the shock extends and the spring extends, those coils extend and allowing the spring to be more compliant.

Many racers (car racers and bike racers) do not like dual rate springs because at initial turn in, or under braking, the spring rate is soft until the tender spring is fully compressed and then the spring rate rises suddenly. For people living on the edge of traction/control this can be a very disconcerting feeling.

Here is a table using made up spring ratings showing the relationship of different rate springs on a dual rate setup.

(T*M)/(T+M)=initial spring rate : M=Final Spring rate : Crossover gap is how much the shock will compress before switching rates

Tender (T) in lbs	4​	2​	1​
Main (M) in lbs	2​	2​	2​
Initial Spring Rate in lbs	1.3​	1.0​	0.7​
Crossover Gap (inches)	1​	1​	1​
Final Spring Rate in lbs	2​	2​	2​

Setting the crossover gap simply sets when you move from the initial spring rate to the final spring rate.

The SRX is at or near its final rate (2 in the example above) most of the time as the crossover gap is small but when the shock does extend it has a lower spring rate. This isn't a bad thing, its a design choice. One big benefit is in roll stability, as the sled transfers weight from side to side while cornering, the force pushing the sled up on the inside ski is equal to the initial rate of the spring and since the force the sled has to overcome on the outside ski is already at its final rate the sled will be very stable in roll.

 

[1nc 2000]

It is a good video but nothing he said contradicted anything I said. But to put it in context. The crossover spacer (referred to as crossover gap I on the hygear site) sets when the tender spring will bottom out. By having a longer spacer you are limiting the amount of compression of the tender spring (softer spring), after which that springs is as compressed as much as the crossover spacer will allow, then the main spring kicks in.

Dual rate btw, and I find this confuses people the most, dual rate refers to the combined spring rating where the first rate is less than the sum of the individual springs (that is the first rate) and the second rate is the complete main spring by itself. The total rate is equal to less than the main spring at first then it is the full main spring second.

On the SRX, there is no crossover spacer gap when the sled is just sitting there so the tighter portion of the coil is nearly fully compressed with the weight of the sled at rest, however, when the shock extends and the spring extends, those coils extend and allowing the spring to be more compliant.

Many racers (car racers and bike racers) do not like dual rate springs because at initial turn in, or under braking, the spring rate is soft until the tender spring is fully compressed and then the spring rate rises suddenly. For people living on the edge of traction/control this can be a very disconcerting feeling.

Here is a table using made up spring ratings showing the relationship of different rate springs on a dual rate setup.

(T*M)/(T+M)=initial spring rate : M=Final Spring rate : Crossover gap is how much the shock will compress before switching rates

Tender (T) in lbs	4​	2​	1​
Main (M) in lbs	2​	2​	2​
Initial Spring Rate in lbs	1.3​	1.0​	0.7​
Crossover Gap (inches)	1​	1​	1​
Final Spring Rate in lbs	2​	2​	2​

Setting the crossover gap simply sets when you move from the initial spring rate to the final spring rate.

The SRX is at or near its final rate (2 in the example above) most of the time as the crossover gap is small but when the shock does extend it has a lower spring rate. This isn't a bad thing, its a design choice. One big benefit is in roll stability, as the sled transfers weight from side to side while cornering, the force pushing the sled up on the inside ski is equal to the initial rate of the spring and since the force the sled has to overcome on the outside ski is already at its final rate the sled will be very stable in roll.

Post number 6 you have edited after I mentioned your theory in regards to that post. No sweat here. Thanks for the tutorial.

 

[earthling]

Post number 6 you have edited after I mentioned your theory in regards to that post. No sweat here. Thanks for the tutorial.

Yes, because I actually re-read what I write and I correct misspellings or incorrect grammar or because I realize I can simplify a concept or make something more clear. If I am going to fundamentally change something I said or wrote, I will modify the font and strikethrough what I say and own that I am wrong. And I will go out of my way to admit that I am wrong. I do not mind being wrong, that's how we learn.

Here is an example where twice in a single thread I admitted that I was wrong.

Second stator lost voltage output

Hello Everyone This is my first post as a long time reader. New to me low KM sidewinder first season started with two tows on trail. First was a busted chaincase next was stator failure. This season first ride was awesome. High voltage charge low coolant temps. Cable scratchers on skis help...

ty4stroke.com

If you still disagree with my 'theory' please take the time to say what it is that you disagree with because all of your posts fit my 'theory' perfectly, including the links you shared. So far you haven't said or shared anything that contradicts what I have said so I am at a loss to understand what it is that you don't like. If I am wrong, I am always willing to learn so I don't take being wrong as an attack, I take it as a learning experience so fire away.

 

[1nc 2000]

Yes, because I actually re-read what I write and I correct misspellings or incorrect grammar or because I realize I can simplify a concept or make something more clear. If I am going to fundamentally change something I said or wrote, I will modify the font and strikethrough what I say and own that I am wrong. And I will go out of my way to admit that I am wrong. I do not mind being wrong, that's how we learn.

Here is an example where twice in a single thread I admitted that I was wrong.

Second stator lost voltage output

Hello Everyone This is my first post as a long time reader. New to me low KM sidewinder first season started with two tows on trail. First was a busted chaincase next was stator failure. This season first ride was awesome. High voltage charge low coolant temps. Cable scratchers on skis help...

ty4stroke.com

If you still disagree with my 'theory' please take the time to say what it is that you disagree with because all of your posts fit my 'theory' perfectly, including the links you shared. So far you haven't said or shared anything that contradicts what I have said so I am at a loss to understand what it is that you don't like. If I am wrong, I am always willing to learn so I don't take being wrong as an attack, I take it as a learning experience so fire away.

Sorry, no need for me to respond to you anymore.
Have fun snowmobiling! Thats why we are on this forum.
Enjoy