Starter Failure

[Vmaxkid]

Just wondering if and how many others have had issues with their starters burning up.
I have a 2008 RTX that I just got this season. Had it checked by my dealer before heading to Canada.
While in Canada, day 2 and only about 10 miles into our ride my sled shuts down. I think it flashed code 46. Dead, would not turn over. Towed it back to a road, picked it up and brought to what used to be a Yamaha dealer. They checked possible causes and found not voltage issue as what they first thought but the starter was locked up.
They had a new starter in stock so I told them to change it. a day later and almost $1000 the sled was finished. They showed me the original starter and asked if I heard it running while I was riding which I didn't. The guts of it were blown apart and the only thing they could think caused it was it stuck on and burned out.
I have read various posts since getting back about various models having starter issues. I am wondering who had to have theirs replaced and why they think it needed replacement?
I don't mind buying a starter on a used sled but the labor was ridiculous. They essentially tore the entire sled apart to get at it unlike my RX1 that they could have likely replaced in 20 minutes. I certainly don't want to replace another starter due to sticking. I know some people changed the starter relay and apparently their is a diode I could possibly change but is this an issue or an isolated incident on Nytros?
I called Yamaha customer service and they informed me that the part is not one that is highly replaced according to their inventory review and the woman I spoke with said this was her first time hearing of such a thing. I explained I just wanted to be reassured that I won't be shelling out $1000 next season for the same thing and all she could tell me was Yamaha parts are guaranteed for 1 year... I asked if a tech could discuss possible items to change to assure me I won't have this happen again. I was told to take it up with my dealer and they could call Yamaha. But of course any diagnostics are out of my pocket...
So anyone else have this issue of stuck starter???

 

[Old Thumper]

Most maintenance is much easier on the Nytro, but swapping the starter is tough.

 

[09nytro]

I never had a problem but what happens is the starter relay goes bad which the starter says in gaged and kills it......rock on here has a led light that hook up to the relay so you know if its sticks .....but I never really heard of to many starters going out

 

[Vmaxkid]

I have been reading a lot about bad starter relays on these sleds. While I was on this trip my RX1 starter relay went as well. So I had a bad starter on the Nytro and a bad relay on the RX1. It was extremely cold at night there but these are snowmobiles and should be able to handle cold weather right? I am wondering could the Nytro starter relay have stuck open supplying constant power to the starter even after it started the sled? If so, I would bet that if that is the case and the starter stayed running because of the stuck relay in the on position causing it to burn out. Does anyone know if in fact there is a service bulletin on starter relays?

 

[Dimebag]

Did it fry the cable going from the battery to the relay, or the cable from the relay to the starter?

I had to tow my sled back home yesterday cause it suddenly shut down, and smoke was pouring out of the right side cover.. The cable between the battery and starter relay had melted, and there was smoke coming from the positive battery terminal.

Hopefully Im just facing a faulty relay/cable.. But Im afraid I may be in the same boat as you..

 

[Vmaxkid]

Mine didn't fry the positive cable as far as I can see. Did you get a code flashing on the display? I wonder if in fact what I am saying happened to mine by the relay possibly sticking open and engaging the starter happened to yours just longer to get the cable to melt. I think the code I had was 46 which stated voltage was too high or too low so they changed the regulator first but that wasn't the issue. Maybe my voltage regulator caught the issue and shut the sled down because that is exactly what happened. I was riding along and we were a good 20 minutes into our ride when the sled just shut down and would not start again. And like I said we tried jumpering the relay but it would not get the sled to crank... found out that the starter locked up once they started disassembly... Check the display and see if there is a code flashing.

 

[natedawgedog]

Did it fry the cable going from the battery to the relay, or the cable from the relay to the starter?

I had to tow my sled back home yesterday cause it suddenly shut down, and smoke was pouring out of the right side cover.. The cable between the battery and starter relay had melted, and there was smoke coming from the positive battery terminal.

Hopefully Im just facing a faulty relay/cable.. But Im afraid I may be in the same boat as you..

dime, your problem sounds like your positive cable went to ground somewere between your battery and starter relay. I cant think of any other reason a positive cable and starter relay would do that other than a ground short. check all your hot and ground leads for rubbing thru the insulators.

 

[Rockmeister]

Believe it or not, this issue is generally caused by the HIGH quality of the sled build.

On most sleds the starter/ring gear/relays/switches, etc have all failed by 10,000 miles easily. (If not MUCH sooner.)
However, this is masked by the fact that the overall sled won't usually last that long, or you sold it prior to the issues showing up.

The Yamaha starter issue is caused by the quality of the starter clutch and the longevity of the sled overall.

What happens is the relay and/or switch eventually fails.
The clutch is so good that your sled does NOT make a sound when the stater is engaged EVEN IF IT IS RUNNING!

Go try it, You won't hear a thing.

So something finally fails and the starter stays engaged.
Next thing you know, you make it a mile or so (to 10 miles in this case) and your sled is dead & smoking.
Your sled hasn't made a sound at all to indicate an issue.
It just apparently died.

While you were riding, the stater was running non-stop, drawing serious current.
All starters are made for low duty cycles, usually less than 5%, so the starter is getting HOT drawing all this current at 100% duty cycle.
The cables are also getting incredibly hot, because again, they are not intended to operate at 100% current for 100% of the time.
Finally the starter is a dead shorted mass of black, the battery dies, and the stator can't keep up & your sled dies.

Most likely, even if it is apparently ok now, your stator is also cooked and will fail in the future.
Maybe not, but the starter seriously overloads the stator, this almost always will cook a stator to death.

If you did the exact same thing in your car/truck, the result would be the same except that the ring gear would also grind away.
The grinding of the ring gear makes a lot of noise, so you would have warning.

All relays/switches, etc will fail, it is NOT a question of IF, it is a question of WHEN.
Unfortunately, In this case you have no warning.

As Nytro09 noted, we have the Starter Saver available for this very issue.
Before anyone thinks I'm trying to make money on these, we sell them at our cost. ($15)
Have also given many of them away, just ask when you are getting anything from us.
We started making them when it happened to a friend on here.

The idea is to save you $800-$1500 or so. (Stator, starter, relay, labor etc can easily get to $1500)
For a $15 investment? Makes pretty cheap insurance.

For those that have had it happen already, if you don't KNOW you found the exact issue that caused the problem to start with, you may be replacing everything all over again.
This has happened to many riders here. Many times more than twice.
A guess, or belief, that you found the cause will not save you money, it is more likely to cost you.
KNOWING that it is fixed is the only thing that will prevent the same happening again.

For you guys in Canada, I can send to you www.YAMAHEATER.com, or www.SLEDTOYZ.com has them in stock also.
That way, you KNOW if you have an issue and have a chance to find/fix it BEFORE your money goes up in smoke.

Hope this helps!

Rock

 

[natedawgedog]

good info rock, thanks!

 

[fxnytro1050]

so i just did the starter myself. I never replaced any fuses/relays or stators. everything was ok. its just the starter wasnt working. so what your saying is my last starter failed because of a fuse/ wiring issue. If i never replaced anything would that mean that its going to happen again? like the next time i ride.?

 

[Vmaxkid]

Great info from Rockmeister... and I guess I will get the LED light to tell me if the starter engages again while riding. I guess that is a good way to tell but the big issue is WHY should I have to? Why is this happening? And why won't Yamaha acknowledge there is a problem? Many Nytro owners on here have had to replace their starter relay but some like me had a failure of the starter that I believe related to the relay.
I have read various posts in the Phazer section and although different sled it is happening to them as well.
I can believe that the relay somehow gets stuck as it is in a really poor location... An area that likely gets moisture/snow and temperature varies from extremely cold when off (and in Canada like I was) and Very hot being right next to the oil tank and engine...
You would think it would be closer to the fuse box above the chaincase.
I PM'd Dimebag about codes he may have thrown and he had 46 like I did as well as 12.
What is even more interesting is that the 2010-2013 starter relay is a different part number. Does anybody know why? Did Yamaha know there was an issue and change the design on newer Nytros and need not be concerned on older models as most would be out of warranty by now? I'd like to know what there reason was for the change.

 

[linemech31]

You would see this with a volt gauge. Never would show charge after starting ie 14.4 ish. Willing to be the root cause will be the relay.

 

[fxnytro1050]

ok thanks.

 

[Rockmeister]

so i just did the starter myself. I never replaced any fuses/relays or stators. everything was ok. its just the starter wasnt working. so what your saying is my last starter failed because of a fuse/ wiring issue. If i never replaced anything would that mean that its going to happen again? like the next time i ride.?

If it didn't just die as your sled was running, most likely just the starter failed.
It does happen and happened to myself.

Kickstarted my sled for a week or so.
(Would hold the key to crank position and kick the top of the drive clutch to get it to spin just a bit & the starter would take off & start the sled. Was funny! lol)

Sounds like just replacing the starter in your case took care of it.

Generally if the starter is melted down inside, something ELSE caused it.
Outwardly you will see that the big wires to the starter were hot.

Rock

PS At least my starter stays ON this sled! lol
Has 3 different starters fall OFF 2 other brands.
Had 2 others that just fell apart.
Loctite, torque, & a number of other things never fixed them.
Gave up & just pulled to start.

 

[Boston RX1]

Would it makes sense for those of us who have not experienced the problem, just change the relay to a new and fresh one?