Trail Handling My Sidewinder Vs My old Viper

[markt111]

So I have had the Sidewinder for a season now and have used it in varying conditions. That said I figured I would give my opinion and see what you guys think of the SW compared to your previous sleds and if you feel similar.

Current sled: SW LTX SE, TD trail tune, Mohawk skis, 144 studs
Previous: Viper RTX SE, stock skis w/dually carbides, 144 studs

First thing is the power, there is no comparison! I thought the Viper was torquey and did a good job keeping up but it would fall off up top against the Skidoo friends riding 800-850s. This thing is just a beast, from the start to top end, it is almost too much power for some trails, I really learned quickly to have some throttle control. With previous machines it would be to the bar, off, to the bar again and so on, With the SW you really need to squeeze slower just to get bite and then the corners come up and your already doing 100... The adrenaline rush doing 120+ on the trail straights is amazing!!!

Handling, it handled great as bought with stock skis and snow trackers on hardpack but once there was some powder on the trails forget it. A quick upgrade to Mohawk skis and it is great in all trail conditions. The handling is precise but I am surprised by the mass difference between the SW and my previous Viper (now the wife's machine) it's feels bigger in general, the seat/tank is higher from the running boards etc... I am pretty tired after throwing it around the trails all day and was never with the Viper, obviously this depends on the type of trails I am riding each day. Some of that fatigue is probably due to the power difference as well but the machine definitely requires more energy and strength to control. I am a very active rider and in pretty good shape, I like work it on the trails, always have. I am surprised that 75lbs made such a difference.

Off trail, forget it, it gets stuck in a couple feet of powder on the edge of the trails, obviously it is not set up for that and not what I bought it for.

I think I may be using multiple machines next year. If I am riding smaller trails and the wife is not riding which she usually isn't (rides a couple times a year) I may have to take the Viper out as it throws form corner to corner so well and has some pep. Just thinking how much I will miss the power of the SW and the money spent to have the most powerful machine out there and hate to have it sit while I ride something else.

I am curious if you guys have had similar experiences? Do you use different sleds for different riding? Maybe I need to work on my set up more?

 

[number1kyster]

I have an RTX. I found it was hard to steer stock. I replaced the center shock spring with a 160LB spring that I purchased from Cannondale27 on this site. That helped with steering effort and made the sled more playful. I think I have it tightened 3-4 turns from loose. I also played with my front shock preload with helped as well.

Which tune do you have? Powertrail for the stock muffler?

There is no doubt about it, these are big sleds with a lot of power. I find that mine tires me out a bit in the twisty trails but that is more my fault. I haven't figured out how to ride it yet without having to grab a fist full of brake coming into the corners on those twisty trails!

 

[Wannaviper]

I currently have a Viper XTX and a Sidewinder LTX DX that I bought to replace a Viper LTX DX. It is kind of like comparing apples and oranges, but I think my experiences with my sleds is somewhat different than yours. My Viper LTX had AC skis and semi-aggressive Snow Trackers. It was a great sled, and handled like a dream. The sled was stock, and the most speed I ever got out of it was 96 mph on a lake in optimum conditions, but it was (at the time) the best sled I had ever ridden. I bought the XTX with the idea of doing some off trail riding, and I got the Mohawk skis. I upgraded both front and rear suspensions, and now it rides and handles very nicely. It is slower than my LTX was, but a fun machine. The only negative I have on it is that it the Mohawks take a lot of steering effort, and depending upon conditions, a 200 mile day would leave me exhausted. I added the 160 spring, and reduced my front shock pressure, and it has helped on the steering effort, but those Mohawks hold the trail for a reason, and it still takes more effort than I would like.

My Sidewinder is without a doubt my absolute favorite sled of all time. The stock power is insane and addictive; when I ride my XTX I miss the acceleration and power. I kept the stock Tuners and added Snow Trackers, and it handled in most conditions very well. Steering effort was minimal, and except for some slight push in soft or fresh snow, it handled like it was on rails. I bought a set of QS3 front shocks, and now it rides and handles even better. The firmest setting increases steering effort a little bit, but practically eliminates push in the corners. I have ordered a QS3 for the rear skid for next year, but right now, my Sidewinder is the best handling and best riding sled I have ever owned. The Sidewinder, despite the weight difference over the Viper, feels incredibly light and nimble on the trails. Unless I get stuck, I have no sensation of weight when riding my Sidewinder; in fact, it feels almost "weightless." My longest day on it was 251 miles, and I got off the sled almost as fresh as I was when I got on, and I am 68 years old.

If you are feeling like your sidewinder is heavy when you are riding, I wonder if it isn't due, at least in part, to your Mohawks? They are a great ski, but they do tire me out!

 

[hibshman25]

The sidewinder is heavier in the nose than a viper so naturally it will have more ski pressure. My MPS kit dramatically lightens up the steering effort and you will not fatigue in the tight twistys!

 

[kinger]

Any fatigue on a turbo 4 stroke is from power! They are a B**** to hold on to! After driving 300hp Apex's I can't go backwards as its such a rush! That said they do wear ya out. I drove a skidoo 800 and thought I was going to fall asleep. I don't get to ride much but when I do I want to be scared and adrenaline flowing!

 

[SqueezeER]

Great topic. I'm running my 18 next year again, but I can't help but think about the future. Where will I go from here? I think about moving up to a Winder, or sticking with a Viper but upgrading to better suspension and overall package IE. LE, or GT.

I ride this thing hard. If it looks like a jump, I hit it. If there is a spot to play off trail a bit, I run it. I would like to play in the powder a bit more too, but its hard with this sled. I would like to be a 70% on trail 30% off trail guy. When I bought it, the guy at the dealer telling me that this sled is more of a ditch banger. Well that's how I ride it. If its tight and twisty, I sometimes get tired. Its rare, but it annoys me in these situations that I get a little fatigued. I'm putting new skiis on it next year, add the spring pressure back in the front, try to get it on rails a little more. I don't know if a 2-stroke would better suit me for the way I ride (just with the weight difference, and off trail stuff).

So back to the topic at hand. Would the Winder be a good upgrade for me? Or would I have to change my style of riding (Less ditch banging, off trail). How is it in the tight stuff?

I realize 200 miles a day is hard no matter what your riding.

I love my sled. The motor is wild. I would like more speed at times, obviously the Winder would give me that, and then some! Its a long time away, but I'm already thinking about where to go from here. I guess its from pure excitement as I love riding.

 

[Motorhead]

Do not have both type sleds, but my neighbor bought a leftover AC 7000 last year, it has Fox Float air shocks if that indicates what model 7000 it is.

He asked that I show him some good spots to unload and ride, so he can run a sustained 50 or 60 mph, whereas he is getting tired of our slow local trails. So I obliged him and we trailered our sleds about 45 minutes away.

Good size trails but most of them were not freshly groomed that day.
He is following and I am going really slow, so not to make him try and keep up. 25-45 mph until we hit a RRBed, then we picked it up to 45-60 mph.

We stopped on the trail to take a break and he asked me why I sit straight in the saddle, while he is practicing the leaning thing that he was told to do by others!! He also mentioned that mine seemed to track straight ahead while his darted quite a bit.

So I suggested that we swap sleds so I could see why he was leaning so much, and check on his darting.

His sled is 100% stock and the ski stance is set with rubbers on widest ski position.

Mine is not stock. 17 L-TX-LE with Curve skis with 6”SJim, 1.22 Ice Attak track, Max Spool 16 smm, etc. and my ski rubbers are on narrow position because 2 sleds will not fit in my newer 101 or 102” wide crossover trailer.


I found that everything on his sled is easy. Easy throttle, steering and all else, but yes very tippy sled with some darting. Power was smooth but well you know, done pulling at over 90.

He found mine to be very different from his. Much more stable sled with incomparable ride and no darting what so ever!!

His rear suspension seemed set up nice for his weight, but I thought maybe adding some air to his front Float shocks may help with the unstableness and tippy sled syndrome. He did not have his air pump with him but vowed to buy some duallies for his skis to get rid of his darting... Have heard from him since and he loves what the dual carbides have done for his darting problem.

His sled has never overheated, mine is rideable thanks to your ski scratchers Travis.

To answer your question about sled fatigue on theses Winders. My buddy (17 RTX-LE) same tune and skis as mine, were talking about why we thought this was so. Combination of heavy front ends (4 stroke) and all that pull. I think it is second nature to hang on too tight, when turning theses things on.

 

[SAB1]

I'm right up Rt1 from you in Rowley and riding the LTX SE also! To answer your question riding up in Maine for sure the Winder all the way but when in NH Lakes region I do run the Apex a bit. Some of the trails are just to darn narrow and sharp for my liking and find that 121 track easier to manage.

 

[markt111]

I'm right up Rt1 from you in Rowley and riding the LTX SE also! To answer your question riding up in Maine for sure the Winder all the way but when in NH Lakes region I do run the Apex a bit. Some of the trails are just to darn narrow and sharp for my liking and find that 121 track easier to manage.

We ride From Gorham North in NH 90% of time, we usual launch out of Errol and go North to Pittsburg or up to the border. Usually around 150 miles a day.

two weeks ago we went to Millinocket Maine rode West to Kakadjo then North to stay in the snow, we went to the Trains, 244 miles in smaller trails most of the day. I was wiped out at the end of the day, we rode in 6" fresh snow most of the day then the last 40 was pretty moguled out after an already long day. My buddies Skidoo 1200 turbo broke of course so he grabbed his 600 back up sled and rode that, he was not nearly as tired at the days end. This is what really got me thinking about using the Viper for the smaller trails and the SW for the big fast trails.

 

[Bigblue1]

Great topic. I find it so subjective, however. Your height, weight, body type, age make such a difference that set up is very critical. I recall seeing a snowtrax review of the sidewinder 129" stating it was simply a waste to have a track so short because of the power and no traction. Yeah for them. They're each under 180lbs wet. Maybe that's the average rider, maybe not, but last I checked everyone I ride with or see at pit stops are generally bigger than that. Sure while 6'3" 275 is way up there, it does have its advantages for trail riding. Fortunately, I bought an RTX LE 129 with the qs3r kashima coated shocks (huge difference). Neither offered now. But, with my weight and height, this sled is a pleasure to ride. Big tune, C&As and only 144 up the middle with stud boy super light backers. I've lost one backer in three seasons btw. Short trails and big open Quebec trails make no difference, it's awesome. Handles great, not soar after big ride, good gas mileage.....when I go through the sled every season I'm shocked at how well the skid holds up. My Apex always had something that needed replacement, be it bushings, a wheel, studs ...always something. Don't get me wrong there are some engineering quirks that make you scratch your head like chaincase design, brake lever etc., but this is the best overall sled I've ever owned. Now let's see what happens as I approach ten or even twenty thousand miles as I have done on past yamahas without major issues.

 

[Wannaviper]

Great topic. I find it so subjective, however. Your height, weight, body type, age make such a difference that set up is very critical. I recall seeing a snowtrax review of the sidewinder 129" stating it was simply a waste to have a track so short because of the power and no traction. Yeah for them. They're each under 180lbs wet. Maybe that's the average rider, maybe not, but last I checked everyone I ride with or see at pit stops are generally bigger than that. Sure while 6'3" 275 is way up there, it does have its advantages for trail riding. Fortunately, I bought an RTX LE 129 with the qs3r kashima coated shocks (huge difference). Neither offered now. But, with my weight and height, this sled is a pleasure to ride. Big tune, C&As and only 144 up the middle with stud boy super light backers. I've lost one backer in three seasons btw. Short trails and big open Quebec trails make no difference, it's awesome. Handles great, not soar after big ride, good gas mileage.....when I go through the sled every season I'm shocked at how well the skid holds up. My Apex always had something that needed replacement, be it bushings, a wheel, studs ...always something. Don't get me wrong there are some engineering quirks that make you scratch your head like chaincase design, brake lever etc., but this is the best overall sled I've ever owned. Now let's see what happens as I approach ten or even twenty thousand miles as I have done on past yamahas without major issues.

I couldn't agree more! It's all subjective, and what you are used to. I am used to riding 4-strokes, delta box and Yamacats. Most recently, I came off a Viper XTX, and my Sidewinder LTX feels light as a feather in comparison. If I had been riding short track 600 2-strokes, I suspect that my Winder might feel heavy, or cumbersome in the "twistys", but I had a bunch of 200+ mile days this season on my Winder, and I never felt like it wore me out.

BTW, my stepson's 2017 RTX now has well over 10,000 miles, and we have had two issues with it. The first was plainly "operator error", and not the sled's fault. (He added 40 hp and didn't do anything to the clutching to account for it, so we ended up with some major damage to the primary.) The second was the loss of a large piece of the track surrounding two studs that spit out at @10,000 miles. Again, not the sled's fault, and the rest of the track looked pretty good considering the mileage. I suspect that with good routine maintenance, these Yamacats will go just as far as the Japan built Yamahas of old.

 

[yamamarc]

One thing I will ever cheap out on when buying a sled is the shock.package!!
My turbo viper had fox float 3 and they where horrible but i didn't know any better! After riding my zr9000 with qs3's any sled I buy from now on will have the best package available!!

 

[SqueezeER]

One thing I will ever cheap out on when buying a sled is the shock.package!!
My turbo viper had fox float 3 and they where horrible but i didn't know any better! After riding my zr9000 with qs3's any sled I buy from now on will have the best package available!!

My next sled will have the best as well.

 

[hellflyer]

One thing I will ever cheap out on when buying a sled is the shock.package!!
My turbo viper had fox float 3 and they where horrible but i didn't know any better! After riding my zr9000 with qs3's any sled I buy from now on will have the best package available!!

Yup! Im going sidwinder this you but SE I think. But will upgrade shocks

 

[thor452]

I felt the same as OP until I put the cat skis with snowtrackers on my sidewinder. all last year I was just exhausted riding in any kind of tight conditions and I ride hard. this year had Travis set me up with skis and snowtrackers and I never felt fatigued at all 2700+ miles this year and loved every minute of it. ready for more even after a 250 mile ride. was more like my apex with power steering that I have kept thinking I would ride that on tight trail days. I didn't put any miles on it this year.