Turbo or SC?? - Pros/Cons

[ROCKERDAN]

After a talk with Dave i think im gonna stay with stage 1...mostly due to fact stage 2 even at 14lbs would really need bigger injectors and fuel pump ect at these low elevations.

so it looks like stage one with 10lbs,headshim ect.

MPI likes the PROLOGGER......instead of other guages this looks like it does alot...

anyone here using the PROLOGGER? is it worth it?

Dan

 

[DC5]

http://www.mountainperformance.com/Files/TSB/TSB-504 Nytor&Apex.pdf
You may need a fuel pump at 10lbs if you are close to sea level. The bulletin says if you may need one if you are running 10lbs and are below 3000'.
Also see these threads.
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?p=499662&highlight=#499662
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=34035&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

 

[aja636]

S/C will still need an upgraded fuel pump for Sea Level, My dad, "SPEED" on here had his on Dyno tech and they have a write up on it. He will have more info for you about S/C/turbo compare for trail riding for he started out with S/C and changed up to a stage 2 powderlites turbo. PM him and he will give you all the help you need.

But for trail riding, a stage 1 set up around 7-8 lbs will give you all the HP you need to scare you and beat any lightly modded sled on the snow on the lakes. And be pump gas friendly at WOT for the lenght of the lake.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Thanks DC5.

some good info there.....looks alot like the stock fuel pumps have a hard time keeping up on long runs.....I worry about this cause i like long radar running and lots of lake running...

how simple is that fuel pump upgrade that JIM speaks about below to install?...cost?

Justin installed a supplemental inline EFI pump, and fuel pressure jumped 10 psi, fuel flow was now safe to 260 plus HP on canadian pump gas, 11/1 or richer A/F ratio.

This sled has 5000 km on it, and the stock fuel pump which is fine when up to snuff on brand new Apex sleds at 280hp, was now laying down losing fuel pressure at only 200 hp.

So the bottom line is here, like my experience and recommendation to MachZers on Doo Talk is that these sleds' pumps seem to be getting lazy after some miles, volume drops, pressure drops, BSFC drops and you can be bit in the testicles in an instant, especially when boosted like this one.

So Justin and others' supplemental fuel pump inline with the stock pump is a necessity to prevent age-related leanouts. I think this age related leanout happens so fast your wideband A/F guage wont pick it up. We see it instantly with the mechanical meters on the SuperFlow dyno but widebands in this situation might be too slow.

So all you boosted apex guys would be wise to fit a rail fuel pressure gauge that will tell you if your pump is getting lazy at WOT on boost, and consider the inline supplemental EFI pump that will deliver adequate fuel pressure to 400 plus hp, sold by Full Power and others. I don't know if it's the filter or the pump (you can't replace the filter only, the filter comes as an assembly with the EFI pump). But everyone will be wise to monitor this, just like the MachZ hotrodders should do.

thanks
dan

 

[DC5]

Third item
http://www.powderlites.com/turbo accessories.html

 

[ROCKERDAN]

so with the stage 1 kit at 10lbs boost,you guys think i should think about an inline supplemental fuel pump?

does the MPI stage 1 kit not come with anything for more fuel pumping?.....i thought in the pictures of the kit it showed a inline pump....maybe i was looking at something else...not sure.lol

Dan

 

[DC5]

The mpi kit does not come with a pump. The powderlites fuel pump kit replaces the stock pump. IMO this is better as there is less drain on the electrical system and to run two pumps you need to install a bypass line with a check valve for the second pump and a hobbs switch so it only turns on at 6-8lbs of boost.

 

[SPEED]

S/C

Dan , At sea level you will need a bigger fuel pump with the S/C I had mine on the dyno and the stock one runs out of fuel . I made up an in tank pump using the stock mounting base and put a larger pump right in the tank which worked great. I ran a S/C Attak for two years then went with the stage II turbo which is what I am riding now. I can honestly say I am having better luck with the turbo (never even put a screwdriver to it last year) For trail riding you can not beat the S/C for fun factor, for balls to the wall speed go the turbo, either way you go both set-ups are basically foolproof . as I stated in another post 99% of the failures are due to install, make sure it is done right once and be happy

 

[ROCKERDAN]

thanks for info guys.....

Is MPI aware that the stage 1 kit at 10lbs/sea level their setup with stock apex fuel pump is not enough?

are all you flatlanders upgrading your fuel pumps to run stage 1 SCs?

i guess this is something i havent heard of till now....better to find out now then later.

can anyone tell me what type of brackets youre all using for gauges?....i really want a nice look with the gauges mounted to stock apex gauge pod somehow.....i guess im just looking at AEM boost and AFR gauges for now...both 52mm round.

any pics would be great of gauge installs.

thanks
Dan

 

[SPEED]

Dan , they are aware of the problem with fuel flow, if you run the 5to7 lb pulley set-up you can get away with your stock pump,the problem comes when you run higher boost,as far as gauge mounts the nicest set-up is the BPE gauge pod, Ulmer sells them and I have a used one listed for sale in the classifieds
Art

 

[SPEED]

BPE Gauge Pod//IMG_0015.JPG

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Dan , they are aware of the problem with fuel flow, if you run the 5to7 lb pulley set-up you can get away with your stock pump,the problem comes when you run higher boost,as far as gauge mounts the nicest set-up is the BPE gauge pod, Ulmer sells them and I have a used one listed for sale in the classifieds
Art

what i dont understand is there stage 1 kit says it comes set at 10lbs,so i guess maybe they are being alittle misleading not saying it needs more fuel.

as a matter of fact,they say their stage 2A kits also runs without fuel pump upgrades...their 2B kit then jumps up to 6499 and add the fuel pump ect.

Im just glad i know before hand....so what fuel pumps is everyone going with?....

Dan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

BPE Gauge Pod//IMG_0015.JPG

thanks for info!...i was just looking at that on Allens site,....anychance you got anymore pics of it ON A APEX mounted up?..

i still have my low 06 shield and want to see how it looks...I also have a windshield bag that sets flat behind my shield which id like to keep for maps.

so do they make one that holds two gauges on left and right or just this three gauge one?....I might be interested.

Dan

 

[machzrobbie]

like this

 

[mulot30th]

why do people tell it need upgraded fuel pump at 10 psi??????????? is beyond me!



I have successfully run an apex at 12 psi with a turbo back in 2006 with the stock fuel pump, injectors, fuel rail and regulator.

I don't see why 10 psi would not run correctly.

head shim (9.3-1) and 10 psi definitely work at sea level, I do have a screw charger on my apex engined rx1 mountain and can stay on throttle as long as I want, I keep her on the rich side for extra safety and may leave some hp on the table but reliability is there, no problems whatever I do with that thing,.