Vector Clutch noise: Volume II

[vector_1]

Okay yamaha experts please debunk my theories. Here goes:

Last night I pulled the primary and began to search for the illusive "clunk" at idle. Here are my observations:
1. I inspected the primary buttons and attempted to insert a .005 feeler guage in there. No dice on any of the 6 sides. Does anyone know what the tolerance is for that space?

2. I noticed that the roller pins had quite excessive slop movement from side to side. My thoughts were to place a washer on the bolt head and on the nut to decrease the amount of movement of the pin from side to side. Perhaps a fiber washer (3/32" or so)?

3. Also the primary weights seem to make a noise when the primary is rotated and they come into contact with the roller. Now at idle these are not 'engaged' so they may be making the noise. When the RPM's increase, they engage and voila...no noise.

Any thoughts?

 

[Roadrunner]

If you wonder if the noise is from the weight/roller and/or the bolt that goes through the middle of the pin, just remove both and start the sled up. If the noise is gone you've found the source. The noise that I've heard sounds too "metallic" in nature to be caused by a plastic button hitting against the metal spider. Although excessive clearance there might cause the weight to hit harder against the roller thereby making a louder noise.

 

[Jack_Shaft]

Okay yamaha experts please debunk my theories. Here goes:

Last night I pulled the primary and began to search for the illusive "clunk" at idle. Here are my observations:
1. I inspected the primary buttons and attempted to insert a .005 feeler guage in there. No dice on any of the 6 sides. Does anyone know what the tolerance is for that space?

2. I noticed that the roller pins had quite excessive slop movement from side to side. My thoughts were to place a washer on the bolt head and on the nut to decrease the amount of movement of the pin from side to side. Perhaps a fiber washer (3/32" or so)?

3. Also the primary weights seem to make a noise when the primary is rotated and they come into contact with the roller. Now at idle these are not 'engaged' so they may be making the noise. When the RPM's increase, they engage and voila...no noise.

Any thoughts?

I also noticed the same items as 2 & 3 on your list when I investigated the primary myself. Even though the weights can certianly move around a great deal and the roller bolts are also quite loose, they are not the cause of the noise. We actually shimmed the bolts with washers in order to quieten that noise down and we also removed the weights altogether to see what that would do. No go. The sound was still there.

It's the power-transmitting tower and spiders that makes the noise and that's it. I know the other components seem ridiculously loose in comparison (normal), but the knock comes from there and there only.

BTW, the combined clearance range (the clearance on both sides, added together) between the slider and the tower is 0.0039" to 0.0177". Remember, these units are made to take some serious wear, thus the large tolerance range.

Ride on. 8)

 

[Slush Monster]

My service manual for the RS rage states the combined tolarance between both spider buttons and sheve to be 0.000 to 0.018. Mine was 0.008 I
installed 0.007 shims I now have a tolarance of 0.001. That matalic
rattle is GONE GONE GONE. you would be amazed at how awesome this
sled sounds after being shimed. My brother brought his over to be shimed
after hearing mine. We shimed his to 0.000 .No more clutch noise. To
get a true reading with a feeler gauge you need to tap the button towards
the outside of the clutch and stick the feeler gauge it in between the slider arm and button. Its very easy to do (1 HR) and after doing this you wont
want to shut the sled off, just sit and listen to it humm away.No more CANK-CLANK.

 

[Jack_Shaft]

My service manual for the RS rage states the combined tolarance between both spider buttons and sheve to be 0.000 to 0.018. Mine was 0.008 I
installed 0.007 shims I now have a tolarance of 0.001. That matalic
rattle is GONE GONE GONE. you would be amazed at how awesome this
sled sounds after being shimed. My brother brought his over to be shimed
after hearing mine. We shimed his to 0.000 .No more clutch noise. To
get a true reading with a feeler gauge you need to tap the button towards
the outside of the clutch and stick the feeler gauge it in between the slider arm and button. Its very easy to do (1 HR) and after doing this you wont
want to shut the sled off, just sit and listen to it humm away.No more CANK-CLANK.

FYI, the minimum is NOT 0.000", it's 0.0039", as per Yamaha's Snowmobile Clutch / Gearing Tuning guide that is distributed to each dealership, each year.

Now, with that said, I shimmed my RS Rage to about 0.000" and although it was a tad "sticky" when re-assembled, it did work fine with smooth engagement/disengagement. The risk you run with the shimming scenario is that the primary can stick in the closed position and this could cause a major accident for you and yours, so be careful with what you are doing.

In most cases, even if it is a tad tight after shimming, you can cycle your primary a few times on the jackstand and it will wear-in fairly quickly.

Keep the rubber side down 8)

 

[az99]

I never had this clutch apart to know the answer, but would it be possible to put small springs behind the teflon buttons like Doo does ? They had a similar problem years ago. All the TRA's I have taken apart have the springs.

 

[Jack_Shaft]

I never had this clutch apart to know the answer, but would it be possible to put small springs behind the teflon buttons like Doo does ? They had a similar problem years ago. All the TRA's I have taken apart have the springs.

I doubt a small spring would have the force requirements to keep the clutch from jerking and making the noise as the engine rotates.

 

[Slush Monster]

Jack-Shaft-

You are actually right and wrong regaurding the clutch measurements!
How? Well, I actually have a dealer chart you are refuring to. Kind of
a big wall poster. Is that the chart you are refuring to? According to that
you are right, But I just recieved the new shop/service manual for the
RS series sleds and I just checked again and it does say the minimum
to be 0.000 max 0.018 Yamaha may have tightend up the minimum
for the purpose of reducing some of the noise. How did yours sound
after you put the shims in?

 

[Jack_Shaft]

Slush Monster,

Thanks for the update and yes, I was certainly referring to the wall poster that has been our bible for so many years.

I suppose if you read between the lines in my post, I was half-heartedly admitting to having shimmed mine to 0.000" gap, thus the "sticky" feeling at re-assembly. The bad news is that if they stick, you're in trouble, the good news is that the sliders will usually wear slightly upon first operation and they work fine afterwards with the absolute minimal play... which I think is what we're all after.

My primary was whisper-quiet after this was done.

Keep on snowin' 8)

 

[Flipper]

Just got off the phone with my dealer.

Yamaha Canada is covering the clutch rattle fix with a shim kit under warranty.

I am taking mine in on Tuesday to get it done.

 

[Tfin]

Anyone have any word on Yamaha US doing the same?

 

[twomorestrokes]

clutch rattle

Not at this time. I just called Yamaha North America. They have no knowledge of the problem or known fix.

 

[Ground Blizzard]

2+strokes, Just curious if you told them about the Canadians getting this done under warr. I am lucky enough to have gotten enough snow last night (dam near wet myself) to make a run longer than a few blocks, may even be able to get'r on the lake . If after I put some more miles on my sled it still bug's me I think I'll have to force the issue.

 

[twomorestrokes]

Yamaha North America

Yes, I told him about what Flipper had written. He couldn't find a file under Flipper though You think maybe that's not his real name?

Seriously, I told him that I had read that the Canadian units were being repaired under warranty. He had no information.

Flipper, did they say that Yamaha had a specific fix to a known problem or is it just that your dealer knows how to fix it and is going to cover it under warranty?

Toys, good news on the snow, huh? Raining cats & dogs here.

 

[vector_1]

Okay, I got fed up enough and took the sled back the dealer and pled my case.
$290 in clutch tools...yadda yadda yadda...to fix a brand new $8k sled..yadda yaddda yadda...which had crate damage to begin with..yadda yaddda yadda...so:

we got yamaha(us) on the phone and their claim was that that they are aware of the situation. They will shim it under warranty, but only once the sled has 100-200 miles on it. Rick(YAMAHA rep) whom we talked to said that there is no damage occurring as a result of the noise and that the tolerances are met, but there is a greater noise due to the characteristics of the 3 cyl 4-stroke engine.

I have half a mind to put it on my lift and rack up 100+ miles tonight and take it back tomorrow and say "here. Now shim the Damm thing"

No way after "jumping ship" back to YAMAHA from Polaris(9 years on YAMAHA, 3 on Polaris) am I going to take this thing up North over Christmas only to have my buddies give me hell for all the racket that it is making.