karl
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2007
- Messages
- 228
- Location
- Whitehorse, Yukon Territory
- Country
- Canada
- Snowmobile
- 2015 Phazer XTX
Hi gypsy, I don't get the ride time you do. most of my rides are in the 50 - 75 km range, usually with a stop or two to enjoy the view... read opportunity to use the mallet. I have the MP with the 16" track and I think it tends to make the ice thinner along the track line so it breaks off more often. after a ride I let the machine cool a bit to firm up the snow and then I use my soft mallet to strike (gently) the sides of the tunnel from the outside, forward of the muff. then I back the sled up to expell the ice and snow out the rear. not a perfect solution, takes me about 20 minutes to clean up the tunnel and skid after a ride. with the exception of the ice build-up, I really like the MP - the ergos, ride, power are just what I was looking for. 
BombaPolaYama
TY 4 Stroke Master
So yes, we all enjoy spending this quality time with our machines at the end of the day; like yesterday we went out for an hour and had to spend 20 minutes extracting the snow after coming back - totally pissed off with this design innovation by Yamaha.
We (wife and I) simply cannot enjoy a ride on this machine with all the noise and vibration - it sounds like a tractor with all the snow in the tunnel. I thought the noise and vibration would be gone when I switched to a 4 stroke? But it is worse! My 2002 Pol 550 Sport Touring with 9000+Km is much quieter and pleasurable to ride than this beast! And I don't have all the work (oh I mean quality time) to clean it up when I return. And, I thought I was upgrading? This is my first Yamaha and it is a big disappointment!
BTW, I sprayed some Rust Check "Coat and Protect" on the tunnel at someone's suggestion to prevent the snow from sticking - but it is not worth squat so don't waste your money on the product for that purpose.
Has anyone had any positive feedback from Yamaha on this issue? I sent pics to them last week at their suggestion and they never even acknowledged receipt.
I hope potential buyers of the VL and MP are reading these comments and deciding not to buy. I read somewhere that one guy changed his mind - great, save your money or spend it on something worthwhile until this is fixed.
We (wife and I) simply cannot enjoy a ride on this machine with all the noise and vibration - it sounds like a tractor with all the snow in the tunnel. I thought the noise and vibration would be gone when I switched to a 4 stroke? But it is worse! My 2002 Pol 550 Sport Touring with 9000+Km is much quieter and pleasurable to ride than this beast! And I don't have all the work (oh I mean quality time) to clean it up when I return. And, I thought I was upgrading? This is my first Yamaha and it is a big disappointment!
BTW, I sprayed some Rust Check "Coat and Protect" on the tunnel at someone's suggestion to prevent the snow from sticking - but it is not worth squat so don't waste your money on the product for that purpose.
Has anyone had any positive feedback from Yamaha on this issue? I sent pics to them last week at their suggestion and they never even acknowledged receipt.
I hope potential buyers of the VL and MP are reading these comments and deciding not to buy. I read somewhere that one guy changed his mind - great, save your money or spend it on something worthwhile until this is fixed.
SNOBLOWR
Veteran
I'm no engineer but it seems to me that if Yamaha had taken the time to finish the inside of the tunnel with smooth aluminum instead of leaving all the cross members and bolts exposed, the ice would have less to stick to. The aluminum could be tacked to the muffler to prevent vibration and facilitate heat transfer. If you look at the back corner of the tunnel on the Venture Lite you will see it is finished off with a nice curved piece of plastic that no ice builds up on.
A set of heat exchangers running along the inside top of the tunnel would also reduce ice buildup dramatically.
If Yamaha would test these machines in real world conditions with real world riders and take a little longer to dot the I's and cross the T's before releasing new products it would only be to their benefit. Loan the machines to real world riders for a week under rigid rules, non disclosure agreements, and benefit from the input of use of the sleds in a variety of circumstances. Testing on groomed trails is best used for producing a video or advertising materials.
I remember when Arctic Cat introduced the T 660 Turbo 4 stroke. AC sent the sleds around from dealer to dealer in March 2003 and I had the use of a T 660 Touring for an afternoon and put 85 miles on it. I was impressed with the sled and voiced a couple of concerns. I traded my Viper in and bought a matching pair, a touring and a 121" trail sled, almost $25,000 for 2 sleds in the fall of 2003. Seat time leads to sales, and I knew what I was buying. I had less disappointments for the 4 years I owned AC sleds.
It is pointless to introduce a lightweight 4 stroke two up sled and have an extra 75 - 100 lbs. of ice buildup when you ride it, kinda defeats the purpose if you ask us who ride them.
The whole industry needs to change their method of weighing sleds from " DRY" weights and "WET" weights to "The Real Weight " after the sled is ridden for an hour in 12" of powder, and has snow and ice built up on the tunnel and skid This weight is the only weight that really matters when you use the sled, how much does it take to maneuver around and how heavy is it when you go to load it or move it around in/on the trailer.
That's my rant for today on this topic.......
A set of heat exchangers running along the inside top of the tunnel would also reduce ice buildup dramatically.
If Yamaha would test these machines in real world conditions with real world riders and take a little longer to dot the I's and cross the T's before releasing new products it would only be to their benefit. Loan the machines to real world riders for a week under rigid rules, non disclosure agreements, and benefit from the input of use of the sleds in a variety of circumstances. Testing on groomed trails is best used for producing a video or advertising materials.
I remember when Arctic Cat introduced the T 660 Turbo 4 stroke. AC sent the sleds around from dealer to dealer in March 2003 and I had the use of a T 660 Touring for an afternoon and put 85 miles on it. I was impressed with the sled and voiced a couple of concerns. I traded my Viper in and bought a matching pair, a touring and a 121" trail sled, almost $25,000 for 2 sleds in the fall of 2003. Seat time leads to sales, and I knew what I was buying. I had less disappointments for the 4 years I owned AC sleds.
It is pointless to introduce a lightweight 4 stroke two up sled and have an extra 75 - 100 lbs. of ice buildup when you ride it, kinda defeats the purpose if you ask us who ride them.
The whole industry needs to change their method of weighing sleds from " DRY" weights and "WET" weights to "The Real Weight " after the sled is ridden for an hour in 12" of powder, and has snow and ice built up on the tunnel and skid This weight is the only weight that really matters when you use the sled, how much does it take to maneuver around and how heavy is it when you go to load it or move it around in/on the trailer.
That's my rant for today on this topic.......
SNOBLOWR said:
Great idea! I'm available for the 2010 models. I even will paid for gas.
BombaPolaYama
TY 4 Stroke Master
Good ideas SnoBlowr, hopefully Yamaha's "experts" are listening. It makes perfect sense what you are saying with all the crooks and crannies in the tunnel not to mention the muffler itself. I was talking to a guy on here who seems to have some expertise in this stuff, he said the only way to fix the problem would be to move the exhaust. About that inverted plastic chute at the back, I was wondering if that was one of Yam's improvements to try and fix this problem from 07? They told me they made some changes but didn't say what they were. And, any idea what those rubber flaps are for on the sides at the rear, (besides looking like cheap .....) they were not on the pics on Yam's website.
What would happen if the snow flap was removed? Would the machine be very dirty to ride?
Thanks, let's keep this going!!
What would happen if the snow flap was removed? Would the machine be very dirty to ride?
Thanks, let's keep this going!!
SNOBLOWR
Veteran
That curved plastic piece at the back of the tunnel is on my '07 and has been there all along.
Not sure what you mean by the "rubber flaps".
The sled would have more icicles without the snow flap and your riding buddies would hate you. Ever notice when you stop the first place the ice and snow fall off of is the snow flap? That's because the warm exhaust hits it and melts the buildup off. When you are riding the turbulence of the track spin prevents the warm exhaust from reaching the flap. That same turbulence encourages ice and slush buildup in the tunnel on all the rough edges and on the suspension.
Not sure what you mean by the "rubber flaps".
The sled would have more icicles without the snow flap and your riding buddies would hate you. Ever notice when you stop the first place the ice and snow fall off of is the snow flap? That's because the warm exhaust hits it and melts the buildup off. When you are riding the turbulence of the track spin prevents the warm exhaust from reaching the flap. That same turbulence encourages ice and slush buildup in the tunnel on all the rough edges and on the suspension.
Bugbear
Extreme
Here's mine after a 52 mile ride.
BombaPolaYama
TY 4 Stroke Master
SNOBLOWR said:
Okay, I was only guessing about the plastic scoop because Yamaha told me they made "improvements" but didn't say what they were.
As for the rubber flaps, I'll post some pictures later. Basically they create another surface for the snow to stick to.
Speaking of turbulence, following is a link to an interesting discussion on exhausts in tunnels and what effects the turbulence has on performance:
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... el+exhaust
SNOBLOWR
Veteran
Nice Pics Bugbear, looks just like the rest of our sleds.
Wow those rubber flaps really enhance the look and I bet the performance of the Multi Purpose sleds. Looks like they do a great job preventing ice buildup.
This must have been a Jr. Engineer project.
If this is the improvement Yamaha has made between '07 and '08 models I can't wait to see what '09 brings.
Wow those rubber flaps really enhance the look and I bet the performance of the Multi Purpose sleds. Looks like they do a great job preventing ice buildup.
This must have been a Jr. Engineer project.
If this is the improvement Yamaha has made between '07 and '08 models I can't wait to see what '09 brings.
Zare
Newbie
Well after a 150klm ride today i have an extra 40+lbs on my sled...
and i had to include this one..
its what we all want to see....
Freshly groomed...mmmmmmmmm
and i had to include this one..
its what we all want to see....
Freshly groomed...mmmmmmmmm
SNOBLOWR
Veteran
Welcome Zare, your VL looks similar to the rest of our sleds. 
SNOBLOWR
Veteran
Leaving today on a 1500 km saddlebag trip around the Gaspe. Bought a new rubber hammer, not able to carry enough propane for a torch to keep the ice under control. Will post pics when I get back.
Hope Yamaha is working on a solution..........
That new XTX would look and work good in a two up configuration if it didn't build up ice like the Venture L or Multi Purpose.
Hope Yamaha is working on a solution..........
That new XTX would look and work good in a two up configuration if it didn't build up ice like the Venture L or Multi Purpose.
Isthatahemi
Expert
Exhaust heat inside the tunnel causes this on all Yamaha 4 strokes. My buddy's 07 Attack must weigh 800# after he rides. On the long tracks it is literally 100# added after a powdery ride. Luckily for the short track owners, closing the tunnel solves this, as well as saving the track from damage. Yamaha needs to isolate the exhaust from the snow, it's that simple.
venturer
Veteran
Is anybody else hearing an irritating noise from the tunnel area, which seems to me to be a result of all the ice buildup around the exhaust?
BombaPolaYama
TY 4 Stroke Master
Yes, there is lots of very irritating noise plus vibration, your observations are right on. This is my first Yamaha and first 4 stroke and the noise level is a definite disappointment. I went for a ride yesterday for 110Km and the last 10Km was so irritating (noise and vibration) that I felt like beating up the sled instead of spending another 20 mins knocking snow off. This aggravation should not be - I certainly did not expect this from Yamaha. And, last week I had an email from them telling me not to expect a quick fix and to be vigilant in keeping the snow cleared out - so now I'm not just frustrated with the problem but also with their responses and attitude! Well excuse me, but I did not spend big bucks so that I would have to spend half the winter clearing the tunnel because of design flaws - this is just not satisfactory and Yamaha's nonchalant attitude towards this problem is pathetic - this is a second year sled now and they should be moving more quickly on getting a fix for this..... Let's keep the pressure on them until something worthwhile is done!
