Viper LTX or XF 8000

[cannondale27]

In my opinion both Yamaha and AC dont know everything day to day and they roll with the punches as best they can. This is a good thing! I want a company that reacts quickly and is forward thinking. Glass half full attitude. All sleds of ANY brand made today are just awesome compared to the past. It takes risk to get better. Hopefully very informed risk. It may suck at times but risk is just part of what makes everything progress. This risk takes trust on our part. Try to look at the positives and above all dont make anything personal. That is the fastest way to lose a thread and worst of all maybe a good friend. All the quotes are NOT needed. Remember glass half full attitude.

 

[stingray719]

Banks 93 I think the key word in your post is "IF"! You know Randy G. had issues last year with his 2013 AC 800. As well as my issues with my 2013 1100 turbo eating belts.
I don't think AC is changing any of their sleds besides the 7000 because of the relationship with Yamaha.

26 different changes to the 2014 Cat m8 from last year including a completely new secondary clutch. Not hard to see Yamaha's hand in most of those improvements. Back on point I may yet buy a Viper, after the season gets going and I can try one out. And, I always have the option of converting my 2014 M8 into a mountain Viper (spare Nytro kept for engine).

I guess I was wrong, I didn't realize Yamaha was assisting AC with all their 2014 sleds???

Read what I wrote agin...slowly if you have trouble with comprehension. Nowhere did I say Yamaha was assisting with ALL Cat sleds. They ARE however assisting in the chassis the Yamaha engine is going in, I don't feel like posting the links but they are easily found.

I needed to edit this and say if you don't know how Yamaha has done partnerships in the past you probably won't understand this one either and no sense in me trying to explain it. Thanks!

Now I am really confused stingray 719... You mentioned the Cat M8 and now it sounds like you are going back to just the AC 7000 sleds which is it???

The XF7000, Viper and the M8 are all the same basic chassis.

 

[Blu2U2]

I hear you cannondale27....nobody wants to be wrong or provide bs information!

So getting back on the topic... If you want a 2 smoke go with the AC 8000 or if you want the proven 4stroke the Viper should be your choice.

 

[2lapsdown]

I hear you cannondale27....nobody wants to be wrong or provide bs information!

So getting back on the topic... If you want a 2 smoke go with the AC 8000 or if you want the proven 4stroke the Viper should be your choice.

I agree.

 

[Malibu]

I hear you cannondale27....nobody wants to be wrong or provide bs information!

So getting back on the topic... If you want a 2 smoke go with the AC 8000 or if you want the proven 4stroke the Viper should be your choice.

x3

 

[yamajammer76]

I keep going the Viper is not a 12,000 sled. The Apex is and the 800 sleds are worth it.

I am thinking 10,500 all day long but for 12,000 they should be putting a turbo on it.

Then I look at the 800 and go well at $200 a belt and that could be 7 belts we are at 12K.

Then I think well just wait until january and you will get the standard $1500 off

Ironically I'd say it is very likely the Yamaha 4-Stroke triple is a much more expensive engine to produce compared to the 800 2 stroke Suzuki.

With that said, I'd also be very surprised if the 800 Suzuki survives much beyond the 2014 model year.

 

[stingray719]

I keep going the Viper is not a 12,000 sled. The Apex is and the 800 sleds are worth it.

I am thinking 10,500 all day long but for 12,000 they should be putting a turbo on it.

Then I look at the 800 and go well at $200 a belt and that could be 7 belts we are at 12K.

Then I think well just wait until january and you will get the standard $1500 off

Ironically I'd say it is very likely the Yamaha 4-Stroke triple is a much more expensive engine to produce compared to the 800 2 stroke Suzuki.

With that said, I'd also be very surprised if the 800 Suzuki survives much beyond the 2014 model year.

You are probably right. Rumor has it Yamaha is helping them design a direct injection 800 or 900 similar to the new Cat 600 DI. If so expect lighter and same or higher horsepower. Of course they could throw us a curve and design Cat a lightweight 4 stroke.

 

[stingray719]

Banks 93 I think the key word in your post is "IF"! You know Randy G. had issues last year with his 2013 AC 800. As well as my issues with my 2013 1100 turbo eating belts.
I don't think AC is changing any of their sleds besides the 7000 because of the relationship with Yamaha.

Ok, this is what I was trying to say to you. Not an "I told you so" just trying to explain my point.

Nytro40th says in another thread,


"TRF guide stated that their quality control standards have gone up."

 

[Banks93]

This decision is getting old. I was ready to go buy the red and black LTX SE and then I keep thinking why would I pay 12,000 for less HP than a Apex. Then I look at the 800 etec X package and the XF8000 cat and think, but I don't get the durabilty of the engine.

Back to square one.

If your rumor is true I would be on board with an 800 like the AC 600 el tigre and have yamaha reliability. I would even take the Viper with a turbo. Maybe I will wait until January or Febuary hope there is a red and black ltx se left over get if for cheap and get the mpi kit.

They need to start making snowmobiles like cars. We should be able to spring order what we want instead of the manufactures trying to put us into categories and premake the sleds. If I am spending that much money I should get to pick what I want on my sled and what I don't want on it. The industry tries to make sleds for the general public and make everyone fit into categories. Just put a platform and let people add and subtract what they want.

Costs are already through the roof shouldn't change it that much and then they might not have all the leftover sleds to blow out from three years ago. They would no how many to make.

 

[snowbeast]

Thank God Yamaha was there to design the 15 major changes AC made to their 14 race sled......The inference that the previous poster made that Yamaha somehow was responsible for the new AC clutch is assinine. The old clutch was junk from the day it came out. Poor design, compounded by the fact that it was outsourced Chinese crap. Everyone knew that. They designed a different one. End of story. Why would Yamaha spend any money on redesigning something that is never going in any of "their" sleds. They didn't want to spend any money on R+D anyway, which is why Arctic Cat is now building Yamaha branded sleds. There is a sigificant difference between a statement that is "true", and one that is "not 100% true"..........

LOL! I suppose you believe that with Cat having access to the best engineering team in motorsports they wouldn't use them if the could? I have a 2014 and the clutch is NOT a different one it is redesigned on the sheave angle and fins. But please don't let facts interfere with your rant.

So if Arctic Cat redesigned the clutch and changed the sheave angle, and the fins, it is NOT a different clutch? What is your definition of different? Yes, I agree, Arctic Cat does have access to the best snowmobile engineering team in motorsports.....

The basic function of the clutch is unchanged,the sheeve angle being changed is the first i have heard of this,the larger cast fins and better bushings,although we already got them installed on our 13 secondary,and it did nothing,was the only change i was told about,it would be interested in who told who that the angle has been changed,and from what to what. there hope is that the combo of better cooling secondary and lower gear ratio,will help heat,i dont believe it for a second,but sense mine was a belt blower,i am in line for them mods,we shall see,in time. So the new 14 seconday is unchanged as far as how the sheeves move over the rollers,and the helix,all the same,looks same as well,just a little taller fins,same basic clutch,differant calibration maybe?

 

[stingray719]

Thank God Yamaha was there to design the 15 major changes AC made to their 14 race sled......The inference that the previous poster made that Yamaha somehow was responsible for the new AC clutch is assinine. The old clutch was junk from the day it came out. Poor design, compounded by the fact that it was outsourced Chinese crap. Everyone knew that. They designed a different one. End of story. Why would Yamaha spend any money on redesigning something that is never going in any of "their" sleds. They didn't want to spend any money on R+D anyway, which is why Arctic Cat is now building Yamaha branded sleds. There is a sigificant difference between a statement that is "true", and one that is "not 100% true"..........

LOL! I suppose you believe that with Cat having access to the best engineering team in motorsports they wouldn't use them if the could? I have a 2014 and the clutch is NOT a different one it is redesigned on the sheave angle and fins. But please don't let facts interfere with your rant.

So if Arctic Cat redesigned the clutch and changed the sheave angle, and the fins, it is NOT a different clutch? What is your definition of different? Yes, I agree, Arctic Cat does have access to the best snowmobile engineering team in motorsports.....

The basic function of the clutch is unchanged,the sheeve angle being changed is the first i have heard of this,the larger cast fins and better bushings,although we already got them installed on our 13 secondary,and it did nothing,was the only change i was told about,it would be interested in who told who that the angle has been changed,and from what to what. there hope is that the combo of better cooling secondary and lower gear ratio,will help heat,i dont believe it for a second,but sense mine was a belt blower,i am in line for them mods,we shall see,in time. So the new 14 seconday is unchanged as far as how the sheeves move over the rollers,and the helix,all the same,looks same as well,just a little taller fins,same basic clutch,differant calibration maybe?

2014 Secondary angle is changed to more like Yamahas angle. You obviously didn't believe me so no use in me posting links, go look it up or contact Cat.

 

[snowbeast]

Thank God Yamaha was there to design the 15 major changes AC made to their 14 race sled......The inference that the previous poster made that Yamaha somehow was responsible for the new AC clutch is assinine. The old clutch was junk from the day it came out. Poor design, compounded by the fact that it was outsourced Chinese crap. Everyone knew that. They designed a different one. End of story. Why would Yamaha spend any money on redesigning something that is never going in any of "their" sleds. They didn't want to spend any money on R+D anyway, which is why Arctic Cat is now building Yamaha branded sleds. There is a sigificant difference between a statement that is "true", and one that is "not 100% true"..........

LOL! I suppose you believe that with Cat having access to the best engineering team in motorsports they wouldn't use them if the could? I have a 2014 and the clutch is NOT a different one it is redesigned on the sheave angle and fins. But please don't let facts interfere with your rant.

So if Arctic Cat redesigned the clutch and changed the sheave angle, and the fins, it is NOT a different clutch? What is your definition of different? Yes, I agree, Arctic Cat does have access to the best snowmobile engineering team in motorsports.....

The basic function of the clutch is unchanged,the sheeve angle being changed is the first i have heard of this,the larger cast fins and better bushings,although we already got them installed on our 13 secondary,and it did nothing,was the only change i was told about,it would be interested in who told who that the angle has been changed,and from what to what. there hope is that the combo of better cooling secondary and lower gear ratio,will help heat,i dont believe it for a second,but sense mine was a belt blower,i am in line for them mods,we shall see,in time. So the new 14 seconday is unchanged as far as how the sheeves move over the rollers,and the helix,all the same,looks same as well,just a little taller fins,same basic clutch,differant calibration maybe?

2014 Secondary angle is changed to more like Yamahas angle. You obviously didn't believe me so no use in me posting links, go look it up or contact Cat.

Do you have any proff,from cat that they changed the angle,if so post up,they have not written in any of there adds anything about sheeve angles being changed,and I would of bet that they would love to advertise anything else to hopefully get us un happy 12 and 13 riders back to having faith in there clutching,so all I am asking is some print where cat said they did,i and a lot of us never saw this bost from cat.

 

[Banks93]

Made my choice.

Got a 2014 Renegade 800 X Package - Red/White/Black.

Maybe I will be back when they put Apex motor and EPS on the Viper.

Everyone have a good season.

 

[number1kyster]

Good Choice. I would do the same. The first etec were junk. I know a few people with the newer models who have 6-7k miles with 0 issues.

 

[Nytro40th]

etec kaboom