Four Stroker
Extreme
I hated the way my Apex GT handled other then in a straight line, until this weekend when I tried two different models of C&A Pro skis; the Outlaw and Razor. First let me tell you the stock skis are total garbage when compared to either of these skis when it comes to handling, I dare say the stock skis are boarderline dangerous and Yamaha should be ashamed for using this ski on what otherwise is a wonderful machine.
I only just discovered TY over the holidays and scoured the forum for info on how to set up my sled, like I said before I was happy in a straight line with the adjustments to the suspension from the info I had learned on the forum (thanks guys for the info on rear skid set-up), but when it came to changing direction I basicly was not sure what to expect corner to corner. With the stock skis sometimes they push really bad, dart on hardpacked or soft snow but not all the time, unwilling to turn when rolling on to the gas at the apex of the turn, and downright freaky on fast sweepers ect. ect.
My favorite so far is the Outlaw, and I say so far because I lucked out and will be trying several brands and models of the next couple of months. The Outlaw steers as if it was powerassited smooth and linearal, I felt little to no darting at all, sled seemed to highside a little less but when it did lift the inside ski I felt confident enough to power on and carve the turn on one ski, the sled changed direction on demand which was a blast in the S turns. To sum up you will not believe the difference this ski makes to the handling of the Apex, easy to steer smooth presice control, point and go.
In a nutshell the Razor still darts though not nearly as bad as stock but still unsettling. It feels as if you might bend something trying to turn the skis without forward movement, easy 50% more effort required for steering inputs, at higher speeds it also liked to push in the corners (I blew one corner today at about 60kh, that got the ticker going alright!), skis seemed to respond better if you taped the brake before turn in.
The Razor is better than stock don't get me wrong but its not my first choice. I found this a little strange when I talked to someone at C&A last Friday they said the XT and Outlaw are very aggersive and geared toward sno-cross and extreme trail riding, where as the Razor is gear toward trail riding with less steering effort and greatly reduced darting, strange but true I found it to be the other way around totally.
I believe a lot of guys are going to think the Apex handles like a dog because of improper set-up and lack of proper info on set-up from there dealers/Yamaha but most of all are those piece of crap skis. Once again shame on you Yamaha if you really do want to be #1 in the marketplace which I believe you are capable of in the near future, this ski has compermised an overall industry leading machine which will cost you because not all people are willing to tinker and toy with a machine they just payed $16,000.cdn for.
I only just discovered TY over the holidays and scoured the forum for info on how to set up my sled, like I said before I was happy in a straight line with the adjustments to the suspension from the info I had learned on the forum (thanks guys for the info on rear skid set-up), but when it came to changing direction I basicly was not sure what to expect corner to corner. With the stock skis sometimes they push really bad, dart on hardpacked or soft snow but not all the time, unwilling to turn when rolling on to the gas at the apex of the turn, and downright freaky on fast sweepers ect. ect.
My favorite so far is the Outlaw, and I say so far because I lucked out and will be trying several brands and models of the next couple of months. The Outlaw steers as if it was powerassited smooth and linearal, I felt little to no darting at all, sled seemed to highside a little less but when it did lift the inside ski I felt confident enough to power on and carve the turn on one ski, the sled changed direction on demand which was a blast in the S turns. To sum up you will not believe the difference this ski makes to the handling of the Apex, easy to steer smooth presice control, point and go.
In a nutshell the Razor still darts though not nearly as bad as stock but still unsettling. It feels as if you might bend something trying to turn the skis without forward movement, easy 50% more effort required for steering inputs, at higher speeds it also liked to push in the corners (I blew one corner today at about 60kh, that got the ticker going alright!), skis seemed to respond better if you taped the brake before turn in.
The Razor is better than stock don't get me wrong but its not my first choice. I found this a little strange when I talked to someone at C&A last Friday they said the XT and Outlaw are very aggersive and geared toward sno-cross and extreme trail riding, where as the Razor is gear toward trail riding with less steering effort and greatly reduced darting, strange but true I found it to be the other way around totally.
I believe a lot of guys are going to think the Apex handles like a dog because of improper set-up and lack of proper info on set-up from there dealers/Yamaha but most of all are those piece of crap skis. Once again shame on you Yamaha if you really do want to be #1 in the marketplace which I believe you are capable of in the near future, this ski has compermised an overall industry leading machine which will cost you because not all people are willing to tinker and toy with a machine they just payed $16,000.cdn for.
Swiss Sledder
TY 4 Stroke God
Can you tell us about the snow conditions during your test? Was it all on the trail or did it include some off trail riding? Were the snow conditions hard packed, fluffy, or slushy snow?
Boston RX1
TY 4 Stroke Master
Great report. Please keep in mind, if your sled is not setup properly with any ski, you could get darting. Darting is a function of ski presure, not having it in the right location on the ski. You can eliminate darting by shimming the skis. Bergstrom Skegs has a great deal of information on darting.
Four Stroker
Extreme
The conditions were as follows -10c when we started riding the high was about -5c for the day, both days we rode either side of 150km which consisted of lake running between trails the lakes had somewhere around 6"-8" snow with pockets of covered slush (4 stroke power sure is nice in the slush) with some packed tracks. The trails ranged from tight wooded areas, to wide fire roads with sweeping turns, we also had to travel down several plowed roads which had an icy base. It snowed on Saturday about 2"-3" and the trails were in great shape on most main lines secondarys being a little bumpy (which I loved blasting through with the Apex), the base was packed and was icy in some spots because of rain a few days ago. Sunday was -3c with a little fresh snow from overnite less lake runnig.
4Fighter
TY 4 Stroke God
News you can use! 
I shimmed my skis using the instructions here, and even with 4" of carbide left on the road-side, the front end stuck just fine using the stockers. Although I've never had a problem with darting, I figured the wear bars might last a tad longer if the front edges of the bar weren't plowing.
But that certainly doesn't mean there's no room for improvement, especially since I have an '04.
Boston RX1 said:
I shimmed my skis using the instructions here, and even with 4" of carbide left on the road-side, the front end stuck just fine using the stockers. Although I've never had a problem with darting, I figured the wear bars might last a tad longer if the front edges of the bar weren't plowing.
But that certainly doesn't mean there's no room for improvement, especially since I have an '04.
welterracer
TY 4 Stroke God
Did you check your ski alignment after installing each kind of ski??
I installed a set of C@A skis on my sled last year and that threw off the alignment big time..
I installed a set of C@A skis on my sled last year and that threw off the alignment big time..
Four Stroker
Extreme
To be fair for evaluation we left all setting on the sled at same postion as when we had stock skis on and saw no change in alignment with both skis.
Four Stroker
Extreme
Darting was one of many issues I had with the stock skis and from what I understand shims will only help that issue and not the rest. To say again you can not believe how amazing those Outlaws felt and how they transformed the handling in all aspects.
Four Stroker
Extreme
I forgot to mention that my friend was riding a brand new attack 0km when we left that morning, and we switched a couple of times throughout the two days and there was not a hope in hell I could keep up on the attack and he felt the sameway.
RoyT
Veteran
Nice ski report – thanks! – Roy
What had you done to your set up before ditching the stock skis? And what did you put on the C&A's for carbide? Also how many studs?
Yamahnator
TY 4 Stroke Guru
I have last years C&A race ski (bought it for the second year in a row). I get zero darting and with very little adjustment the thing corners like its on rails. It DOES steer a little heavier though (obviously). I was gonna try Simmons this year but C&A has kept my business through a ski that does what I want.
MR.HAPPY
TY 4 Stroke Master
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You should try the Outlaws on the Attak & see what it felt like then!!!
That would be news I & many could use!!!
Good job so far!!!
BR
That would be news I & many could use!!!
Good job so far!!!
BR
waldo1
Expert
Whats the cheapest spot to get em.
