Warning, -16 late build Viper turbo breakdowns, bad rods.

[4StrokeAddict]

So you realy say that the mpi trail kit would give only +11 hp ???

He was taking those numbers at the track, not off the drive shaft. There is roughly 40 hp loss in the drive train.

 

[Joe ltx-le]

He was taking those numbers at the track, not off the drive shaft. There is roughly 40 hp loss in the drive train.

I hope that's what's hurricane is talking about. But I don't read it that way. He compares the stock hp to 130. That's at the engine.

 

[4StrokeAddict]

I hope that's what's hurricane is talking about. But I don't read it that way. He compares the stock hp to 130. That's at the engine.

Yeah, you are right. Going back and rereading it, it doesn't read that way. Adding 4.5PSI should get you in the neighborhood of 180HP. If he is saying something different, I'd question his numbers as others have Dynoed at roughly 180-185hp.

It all comes back to suck/bang/blow. The turbo helps the suck. Baring other modifications like timing and compression, we aren't changing the bang. That means the blow is really the only difference between two turbos at the same boost level. Turbo efficiency and spool will have some say but not at max throttle. As long as the turbo is big enough to maintain the boost, then one turbo shouldn't produce more HP at a given PSI than another at the same PSI once both turbos are fully spooled. Intake geometry shouldn't play as large of a role as a N/A sled aside from how close the intake is to the turbo. Distance will create turbo lag.

 

[Joe ltx-le]

Yeah, you are right. Going back and rereading it, it doesn't read that way. Adding 4.5PSI should get you in the neighborhood of 180HP. If he is saying something different, I'd question his numbers as others have Dynoed at roughly 180-185hp.

It all comes back to suck/bang/blow. The turbo helps the suck. Baring other modifications like timing and compression, we aren't changing the bang. That means the blow is really the only difference between two turbos at the same boost level. Turbo efficiency and spool will have some say. As long as the turbo is big enough to maintain the boost, then one turbo shouldn't produce more HP at a given PSI than another at the same PSI. Intake geometry shouldn't play as large of a role as a N/A sled aside from how close the intake is to the turbo. Distance will create turbo lag.

Ya. I really hope they recheck those numbers. Mpi would have some answerIng.

Suck/bang/blow? You missing a stroke bro! Hahah i hear what your saying though.

 

[4StrokeAddict]

Ya. I really hope they recheck those numbers. Mpi would have some answerIng.

Suck/bang/blow? You missing a stroke bro! Hahah i hear what your saying though.

Ha! How did that happen? I'll have to have a talking to her... She hasn't been trained right.

 

[kviper]

You will loose way more than 40hp to the track if figuring 180 crank HP! 60% to the track give or take depending on clutching would be much closer!

 

[Yamadog]

KViper is correct! mine on the track dyno is 145 hp which translates to 252 at the crank it is about .576 loss through the drive train.
The Red line is 12's of boost and the blue is 9 #'s

 

[4StrokeAddict]

KViper is correct! mine on the track dyno is 145 hp which translates to 252 at the crank it is about .576 loss through the drive train.

My mistake. I knew it was high, did realize it was that high. It's been awhile since I saw the results. Guess my memory was off.

 

[Yamadog]

No worries but the quote from Hurricane makes no sense either way the boost on the trail turbo of 4.5 #'s would be a gain at the crank of over 9 hp per lb. ( iam getting 9.6/lb) = to about 40.5 hp on top of a conservative 130 = 170.5.

Air is air maybe not intercooled but still he is quoting a less than 3 hp/ # of boost. I think they got a bad one! or maybe a "placeboturbo" take one and feel faster in the morning. At least no rod damage will occur!!!

 

[HURRICANE]

The sled that we did the testing on was a dealer installed mpi turbo kit.the first dyno pull was 141hp@4.5lbs boost. The owner wasn't real happy so i turned up the boost to 6lbs@158hp. He was still upset and asked me to remove the kit and install the hurricane kit. After some discussion we desided to figure out how to make his mpi kit work.the next step was to remove the exhaust from the turbo. It made 191hp@6lbs boost @12.5afr. After modifying his muffler, adding injectors and a pcv, we had the mpi trail kit making 183hp@6lbs boost@11afr.this is a short discription of a day long process

 

[4StrokeAddict]

After modifying his muffler, adding injectors and a pcv, we had the mpi trail kit making 183hp@6lbs boost@11afr.this is a short discription of a day long process

That is interesting. Was this one of the early mufflers. I believe they had a trail muffler update sometime in the last year. Something still seams off to me considering MPI is advertising 180 hp on their trail kit. You are saying the stock kit isn't even doing that under 6psi.

 

[kviper]

No worries but the quote from Hurricane makes no sense either way the boost on the trail turbo of 4.5 #'s would be a gain at the crank of over 9 hp per lb. ( iam getting 9.6/lb) = to about 40.5 hp on top of a conservative 130 = 170.5.

Air is air maybe not intercooled but still he is quoting a less than 3 hp/ # of boost. I think they got a bad one! or maybe a "placeboturbo" take one and feel faster in the morning. At least no rod damage will occur!!!

All things equal you will gain more per lb boost on stock compression than on a decompresed motor.

 

[Yamadog]

K viper True, but I have the wiseco piston at 10:1 which are less decompression than the head shim at 8.5:1 he is now stating that the loss was all due to the restriction of the trail muffler. He was getting 191 with no muffler saying that the stock motor gained 10.167 hp per lb of boost but the AFR #"s were not safe to run without additional fueling which is what happened to mine back in 14 on the stock motor.

All of this shows that lb for lb the hp / lb of boost is about the same it, is the restriction of the exhaust after the turbo that is detrimental to the gains.

 

[Joe ltx-le]

K viper True, but I have the wiseco piston at 10:1 which are less decompression than the head shim at 8.5:1 he is now stating that the loss was all due to the restriction of the trail muffler. He was getting 191 with no muffler saying that the stock motor gained 10.167 hp per lb of boost but the AFR #"s were not safe to run without additional fueling which is what happened to mine back in 14 on the stock motor.

All of this shows that lb for lb the hp / lb of boost is about the same it, is the restriction of the exhaust after the turbo that is detrimental to the gains.

Do you know if my 2016 trail muffler will have the same problem?

 

[Joe ltx-le]

The sled that we did the testing on was a dealer installed mpi turbo kit.the first dyno pull was 141hp@4.5lbs boost. The owner wasn't real happy so i turned up the boost to 6lbs@158hp. He was still upset and asked me to remove the kit and install the hurricane kit. After some discussion we desided to figure out how to make his mpi kit work.the next step was to remove the exhaust from the turbo. It made 191hp@6lbs boost @12.5afr. After modifying his muffler, adding injectors and a pcv, we had the mpi trail kit making 183hp@6lbs boost@11afr.this is a short discription of a day long process

Would you have the afr readings from your first pull? Basically the way it was setup from the dealer?