Mtn-Track
Extreme
kinger said:
K-Y comes to mind, or something thereabouts....
I've been servicing all my sleds this week with them on a sled jack. To test run them I spray some silicone on the track along the clips. Normally the track won't turn until the clutch engages, but a little silicone on the track will let it idle along with the engine. Makes a HUGE difference in friction on the track with the hyperfax. When they are not running, you can spin the track with one hand real easily. It won't last that long in the snow and I don't know that anything will, so you might have to rely on the engineers that make the hyperfax to sort it out. There are some guys that run some sort of lube bottle with a hose down to their track for low/no snow conditions, but when it gets that bad I just don't ride.
Hope that helps.
Attachments
Yeah when its that bad my lube bottle contains Jack Daniels & I get slippery 
OOOOOH KY jelly I was thinking Kentucky OK how about a little of both 
Super Sled
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Yamadog said:OOOOOH KY jelly I was thinking Kentucky OK how about a little of both
Now there's a man with his priorities straight: Sleds and alcohol bofore women!!!!!!!!!!
Mike
Woman? what is this creature you speak of?
NO NO just kidding I like to bring a few along you know to carry the KY and Whiskey!!!!!!!!!!
NO NO just kidding I like to bring a few along you know to carry the KY and Whiskey!!!!!!!!!!
Mtn-Track
Extreme
Well,................
It's nice to know that when you guys start talk'n about mix'n K-Y and wiskey, THAT THERE IS A WOMAN involved in there somewhere.
You were starting to scare me a little there...
It's nice to know that when you guys start talk'n about mix'n K-Y and wiskey, THAT THERE IS A WOMAN involved in there somewhere.
You were starting to scare me a little there...
Anybody tried Fluid Film ?
It works great on my snowplow.
It works great on my snowplow.
Yamadog said:
In all my racing days..thats all we worked on (getting more HP to the track) and besides handling...never ever worried about the Yamaha engine. They always had the power.
RJH said:
yes h.p. at the track is about 50-70% of the power made...a majority of the power losses are through the gearcase and clutches...highest quality lubes and chain tension and proper clutching will yield the biggest gains..
when it comes to clutching there is a constant fine line between belt slip (loss of power) and belt friction (energy lost through inefficiency)....
arteeex
TY 4 Stroke Master
Horsepower isn't lost. Horsepower is simply a measure of how fast a system can do work. Mathematically, at a constant speed and load there is no horsepower output because the rate of work is constant - its derivative is zero.
As the mass (inertia) and friction of a system increases the rate at which work can be done decreases - given a finite energy source – thus the lower horsepower rating. Reducing friction between moving parts and inefficiencies in torque transmission will help, but only marginally, maybe a few percent. My earlier point about the track was that it requires a great deal of energy to move, but as long as we want a snowmobile there’s not a lot that can be done to make it more efficient.
Reducing the overall mass of the system is the where the biggest gains are to found. Consider that 25 pounds moving parts in the motor must propel 700+ pounds of sled and rider. Obviously the rate (work as a function of time) at which this can be done must be less and thus the lower hp numbers.
As the mass (inertia) and friction of a system increases the rate at which work can be done decreases - given a finite energy source – thus the lower horsepower rating. Reducing friction between moving parts and inefficiencies in torque transmission will help, but only marginally, maybe a few percent. My earlier point about the track was that it requires a great deal of energy to move, but as long as we want a snowmobile there’s not a lot that can be done to make it more efficient.
Reducing the overall mass of the system is the where the biggest gains are to found. Consider that 25 pounds moving parts in the motor must propel 700+ pounds of sled and rider. Obviously the rate (work as a function of time) at which this can be done must be less and thus the lower hp numbers.
based on the premise the track is where we are measuring h.p. at vs. the crank....I will disagree with your point that the gains are marginal...
considering that friction is lost energy and slipping of the belt is also lost energy....maybe a better way to put it is there are substaintion gains in dirveline inneficiency...
proof has been snown time and again on a track dyno....
as to the 25 parts propelling the mass....true inertia body at rest body in motion however there is an x factor...the inneficiency of a cvt system at low gear....this is the first area where free power typically lost through a cvt system can be had...if one truly understands the cvt system they will understand that often in the past greater gains are had there than the reduction of vehicle mass...
where the mass or overall weight of the object becomes more substantial is in power to weight ratio with the x factor being driveline efficiency or lack thereof...
this is where a lower powered machine which is actually heaver beats a higher powered lighter machine..
considering that friction is lost energy and slipping of the belt is also lost energy....maybe a better way to put it is there are substaintion gains in dirveline inneficiency...
proof has been snown time and again on a track dyno....
as to the 25 parts propelling the mass....true inertia body at rest body in motion however there is an x factor...the inneficiency of a cvt system at low gear....this is the first area where free power typically lost through a cvt system can be had...if one truly understands the cvt system they will understand that often in the past greater gains are had there than the reduction of vehicle mass...
where the mass or overall weight of the object becomes more substantial is in power to weight ratio with the x factor being driveline efficiency or lack thereof...
this is where a lower powered machine which is actually heaver beats a higher powered lighter machine..
arteeex
TY 4 Stroke Master
The purpose of a drive system isn't to transfer horsepower it is to transfer and amplify work. The measure of horsepower at the track is not strictly related to the horsepower value at the crank. Having to move the additional mass of the track and drive gear changes the equation. You will never see track hp equal crank hp.
To see more horsepower at the track between setup A and setup B the system would require a reduction in frictional losses and/or inertia. But again, gains due to reduced friction are realized as efficiencies in the transmission of work not horsepower.
I agree that a CVT is an inefficient system (about 88%) due to its inertia, moving parts and losses through the belt, so there is some room for improvement. But still, not a lot. And this is why most people just feed the beast to get more on the input side.
To see more horsepower at the track between setup A and setup B the system would require a reduction in frictional losses and/or inertia. But again, gains due to reduced friction are realized as efficiencies in the transmission of work not horsepower.
I agree that a CVT is an inefficient system (about 88%) due to its inertia, moving parts and losses through the belt, so there is some room for improvement. But still, not a lot. And this is why most people just feed the beast to get more on the input side.
I hear you and what your saying is true, but hears the thing, the bottom line point is:
Less drag from moving parts= more efficient power to the ground, and thats all that matters. So thats all the thread is about, reducing drag.
I dont think anyone expects 150 track hp. I'm pretty sure that would kill us anyhow.
Less drag from moving parts= more efficient power to the ground, and thats all that matters. So thats all the thread is about, reducing drag.
I dont think anyone expects 150 track hp. I'm pretty sure that would kill us anyhow.
arteeex
TY 4 Stroke Master
Actually, the thread was about ways to reduce friction. What we offered is more helpful than platitudes - and more interesting.
as a footnote to friction reduction...rubber and plastic dont mix...so a fully punched and clipped track is of great benefit...especially when the track has greater than 1" lugs...
