Well if thats it I can see why they blew off the Minneapolis show. It would take months to put together that lineup for a show. You know scraping off the old decals and putting on the new ones. And if I was a dealer I would be put off that my manufacturer unveiled that to the public without my personal knowledge being updated first. If one of my customers walked in tommorrow and knew the new decals before me I would be embarrassed.
They were probably scared to open next to the new CAT 175HP 4 stroke. Great machine and comes with a 40 lb fire suppressent system built right in. I hear recharges will be sold on a 5 punch as you go ticket. Safety 1st and they are great for night rides, oncoming sleds can see you up to 5 miles away.
They were probably scared to open next to the new CAT 175HP 4 stroke. Great machine and comes with a 40 lb fire suppressent system built right in. I hear recharges will be sold on a 5 punch as you go ticket. Safety 1st and they are great for night rides, oncoming sleds can see you up to 5 miles away.
SERPAGS
Expert
very, very sad. point made.
baknblk
Extreme
I do not know why everyone is so surprised ? Yamaha came out with the Phazer than the Nytro and this is only the 4th season for the Apex. Yamaha has been #1 at the American Snowmobiler shoot out even against the supposed all mighty 800r and Mach Z. They have to pay for all of this before they can justify major changes. Sure I would have loved to have seen a 175hp Apex but I think the reality is the Apex will die soon and the Nytro will end up being the sled of choice with more hp, they do not need 3 different chassis's. Do not get me wrong if my sled needed to be replaced I can not imagine buying a new one that is not much different than my 06 and costs so much money, I would be looking at the Cat very hard. I just do not think that Yamaha can justify major changes this year and do not forget the VMAX4 lasted 6 years and the SRX lasted 5 years.
Well its just dissapointing. Yamaha has been the leader over the last 7 yrs after taking an *&&*^ whooping with sleds that were detuned and had no suspension.
What they have done with the Phaser is great but was done to pull new people into Yami, though it's not a product for the blue hearted.
The Nytro is neat and I have friends that have them and I have rented them out west and they are for the ditch bangers and snowcrossers. I can tell you that noone that I know that has one will cover repeated 350 mile days in the UP or Canada.
I understand that this is a business and there is certain ROI's that play into model design and profits. We need Yami to be profitable in this endevor or they will cut and run and that leaves guys like me out in the cold.
I wasn't hoping for the mystical 2.0 litre V-8 (2 genesis 150's welded together) with a twin garret turbo and nitrous for when 600 ponies ain't quite enough. I do think there is room in the 150 for the stroking to 1100 CC's from the factory a tweak on the injection management system air intake and exhaust to bump her to 165 hp.
A little technology like adjustable articulationg risers, better skis (or just re-molding the rubber stop block so we don't have to shim them) adjustable seats, hot handwarmers all could go a long way to advancing an already proven design. We don't need a pack of 25 engineer's pumping out a radical new sled every 3 yrs but refine what we got. If they do that by 2015 rider forward will place the driver in the next town waiting for the sled to arrive.
I have spent the last 6 yrs rebuilding the 03 platform making them faster and more ergonomically friendly. engine, suspensions, skis, clutching, seats........The possibilities are endless. I will never tire of the RX-1's challenges and rewards but it would be nice to have something to be psyced about in the lineup this yr.
Reliabilty and warranty issues are huge and jumps like Arctic Cat made to go to 175 hp I think might kill them. Clutches, belts, drive shafts and bearings are being stretched to the limits in their current configurations. But we do see turbo's pushing 225 hp on stock machines and handling it quite well.
Well this topic has been beat to death and the deal is done. No matter what happens from here out I know Yami took a huge leap of faith when they junked the 2 smokes and lead a battle that no one has joined in on till now (only half heartedly) with the 4's and we knew they were going to have to merge old and new tech to get a starting point and to see the lineup stand where it is today from 03 RX to 09 Nytro & Apex models is incredible.
I just look forward to the future and know the next generation will cause as much of a stir as the last 2 have.
What they have done with the Phaser is great but was done to pull new people into Yami, though it's not a product for the blue hearted.
The Nytro is neat and I have friends that have them and I have rented them out west and they are for the ditch bangers and snowcrossers. I can tell you that noone that I know that has one will cover repeated 350 mile days in the UP or Canada.
I understand that this is a business and there is certain ROI's that play into model design and profits. We need Yami to be profitable in this endevor or they will cut and run and that leaves guys like me out in the cold.
I wasn't hoping for the mystical 2.0 litre V-8 (2 genesis 150's welded together) with a twin garret turbo and nitrous for when 600 ponies ain't quite enough. I do think there is room in the 150 for the stroking to 1100 CC's from the factory a tweak on the injection management system air intake and exhaust to bump her to 165 hp.
A little technology like adjustable articulationg risers, better skis (or just re-molding the rubber stop block so we don't have to shim them) adjustable seats, hot handwarmers all could go a long way to advancing an already proven design. We don't need a pack of 25 engineer's pumping out a radical new sled every 3 yrs but refine what we got. If they do that by 2015 rider forward will place the driver in the next town waiting for the sled to arrive.
I have spent the last 6 yrs rebuilding the 03 platform making them faster and more ergonomically friendly. engine, suspensions, skis, clutching, seats........The possibilities are endless. I will never tire of the RX-1's challenges and rewards but it would be nice to have something to be psyced about in the lineup this yr.
Reliabilty and warranty issues are huge and jumps like Arctic Cat made to go to 175 hp I think might kill them. Clutches, belts, drive shafts and bearings are being stretched to the limits in their current configurations. But we do see turbo's pushing 225 hp on stock machines and handling it quite well.
Well this topic has been beat to death and the deal is done. No matter what happens from here out I know Yami took a huge leap of faith when they junked the 2 smokes and lead a battle that no one has joined in on till now (only half heartedly) with the 4's and we knew they were going to have to merge old and new tech to get a starting point and to see the lineup stand where it is today from 03 RX to 09 Nytro & Apex models is incredible.
I just look forward to the future and know the next generation will cause as much of a stir as the last 2 have.
horny red devil
Pro
I like that the others seem to be getting ahead if it were not for competition we would be riding 1972 sleds and wouldn't know any better? I do however worry at what the cost of new sleds will be in a year, I for one am happy with what I have 88 phazer,2002 viper,3 kawasaki invaders(79),and a 2003 rx1. I know I don't have the latest and greatest sleds out there but I have alot more than others have! Enjoy your sleds and get your dollars worth out of them if it were me and I bought a sled say 2 years ago and they came out with something that turned the world upside down for the same money I would be kicking myself in the arse.
SERPAGS
Expert
horny red devil said:
When you ride 4000 miles a year, its not the best move to keep the sled for 5 years, you will end up putting the same $$$$ on repairs. I now have almost 7000 miles on mine and already find that I have put enough money in maintenance, imagine if pipes and jackshaft starts giving me problems, not to mention the chaincase.
ROCKERDAN
OCD Sledhead
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I knew there wasnt gonna be any big new sled this season......
but what i had hoped is...FIX THE POORLY DESIGNED CRAP THAT IS BREAKING!...
-worst hot grips on market
-Y pipes that crack
-Donuts that wear out way to fast
-skis,we ALL had to change them
I mean why would they now put a rear heat exhanger on the apexs(after 3 years of knowing they needed it) and not put new skis and hot grips????......
Im hoping the grips get a fix and they just wont talk about it prior....just change the output or something...
I also saw the weights are going up.....maybe finally they put on better Y pipes and 2 bolt idler wheel brackets?.....id rather have a 10 lb heavier sled that works!
One thing im glad about...i can keep mine another year...since nothing really has changed!
Dan
but what i had hoped is...FIX THE POORLY DESIGNED CRAP THAT IS BREAKING!...
-worst hot grips on market
-Y pipes that crack
-Donuts that wear out way to fast
-skis,we ALL had to change them
I mean why would they now put a rear heat exhanger on the apexs(after 3 years of knowing they needed it) and not put new skis and hot grips????......
Im hoping the grips get a fix and they just wont talk about it prior....just change the output or something...
I also saw the weights are going up.....maybe finally they put on better Y pipes and 2 bolt idler wheel brackets?.....id rather have a 10 lb heavier sled that works!
One thing im glad about...i can keep mine another year...since nothing really has changed!
Dan
horny red devil
Pro
MAINTENANCE is standard on anything you buy.I understand you put alot of mileage on in a year. A bearing , doughnuts, and a few other things in the summer off season shouldn't cost that much.I agree with rockerdan atleast fix or update the new sleds to fix existing problems.Now if you had a lemon that would put a whole different paint job on my last post. Dont get me wrong I can go out and buy a new model (first year) but you still have to sink dollars in it to get it where you want and figure out what a manufacture overlooked still cost you$$$ But if you have a 2 year old sled worked out and you enjoy it that sled would end up cheaper to run. Thats why I enjoy this site I look to see what the common problems are and look into my sled to see if it will or does have to be fixed.I do however try to do all of my own work on sleds which saves me big coin.This site saves me alot of money with the knowledge of people like you and others.
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
ROCKERDAN said:
To be honest the thing that would have impressed me the most would have been if Yamaha would have put a REAL effort into both fixing the remaining weak links and really calibrating these sleds properly at Yamaha.
The weaknesses/calibration that should be addressed:
- worst hot grips in the industry
- y-pipe and exhaust donut failures
- new skis that work as well as REV/REV-XP skis
- 50/50 or 55/45 antifreeze/water mix from the factory
- well calibrated shock absorbers across the entire line up using multi-stage valving that provides a Cadillac ride on smooth trails and appropriate bottoming control on rougher trails (with aggressive bottoming control on all RTX sleds) as well as zero kickback over large bumps.
- ship all of the sleds (Apex at least) with the limiter strap at least one hole tighter (two holes tighter on the Apex RTX) and the weight transfer setting high enough to allow just a hint of ski lift (if a rider puts his weight back on the seat or is standing). I strongly believe this should be the norm since setting them up to keep the skis on the ground when cornering is much safer for newer or less experienced riders as well as experienced riders on a new sled (not to mention it is what the majority of riders really want). Anyone who wants to lake race can easily dial their sleds in for this and turn their sled into a wheelie monster if they want.
- reinforced pivot arms and slide rails on all RTX sleds (make the RTX line at least as durable as Skidoo's rough trail offerings, including proportionally stronger to cover the increased weight of the Yamaha)
- two bolt idler wheel mounts and reliable idler wheels that use 6205 bearings
- idler wheels that are 4mm larger (134mm instead of 130mm) while using the same mounting centers relative to the bottom of (new) hyfax (or alternatively - lower the idler mounting locations by 2mm and stick with the existing 130mm diameter)
- grease fittings that don't leak
- oilite bushings from the factory throughout front end and upper front pivot arm on Apex RTX. It is embarrassing how sloppy the front end on an Apex is compared to a REV/REV-XP with the same number of miles on them.
- all bushings greased at the factory, especially ones without grease fittings
- grease fittings added to steering bushing above chaincase and reverse slip tube
- improved chaincase cover geometry so there are no oil leaks (done - updated in 08)
- much stronger radiator mounting tabs so they don't fatigue and crack (done - updated in 08)
These Yamaha 4-stroke sleds are awesome machines that are 95% there, ready to ride side by side with the #1 sled manufacturer (in sales). It bugs me that we have to upgrade this, adjust that, revalve the shocks, change the skis, etc. if we want to keep up with our buddies on their new REV-XPs (or even older REVs) on typical trails (bumpy and twisty). If Yamaha made the improvements above, these sleds could honestly outperform the competition in many ways. Right now it is these "little things" that hurt and as always it is the "little things that count".
Another extremely important area that Yamaha needs to address ASAP is fuel range. Last week I had the opportunity to both test ride and ride with an 2009 REV-XP MXZ 600 HO E-TEC. Talk about incredible fuel range. About 40 liters (10.6 US gallons) of usable fuel and 25+ real miles per gallon provides an incredible 265 mile/425 km fuel range. On top of that, Skidoo offers a tunnel mounted factory accessory 10 liter (2.5 US gallon) fuel tank to further increase this to a truly amazing 325 mile/520 km fuel range. This thing seemed to go forever on a tank of gas (compared to my Apex RTX). Yamaha's direct competition for this sled, the FX Nytro, has a measly 80-100 mile fuel range per tank. This 600 E-TEC is also the smoothest running 2-stroke I've ever seen and there was no smoke, no vibration, nor any 2-stroke smell.
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
ROCKERDAN said:
Did they really put a rear heat exchanger on all Apexs?
If I recall this has been a rumor going around every year since the RX-1 and come production we've never seen a rear heat exchanger - yet.
On top of that, for trail use there is no way a heat exchanger is required on a short track Apex. As long as a reasonable 50/50 or 55/45 antifreeze mixture is used these short tracks (at least) will run without overheating on zero snow. I can't see needing more cooling than that for the average trail rider (of course if the Apex is supposed to be ready to lake race on ice its a different story).
If Yamaha adds an unnecessary (for most of us) heat exchanger and doesn't fix the real issues I won't be impressed. Don't get me wrong, personally I'd prefer my sled to have extra cooling - even at the sacrifice of a little weight, but it is far from the 1st thing Yamaha needs to address (unless they insist on shipping sleds with close to 100% antifreeze...).
MCApex44
TY 4 Stroke Guru
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Great posts by Rex and Rockerdan...THANK YOU guys for putting in the time to write what most of us are thinking/WANTING.
Honestly...I would be very happy if Yamaha put out a recall on the dreaded idler wheels. I'm on my 4th set in a little over 3,000 miles. Thats all I want from Yamaha is a better wheel and mount. The other stuff mentioned in your posts would be fantastic as well but its the damn idler wheels that keeps my Apex off the trails.
What a fantastic sled the Apex/Attak is. I absolutly love it but as Rex mentioned and I have mentioned on a previous post on another thread....its the "little things" that really grab my a$$. The little things that havent been addressed (by Yamaha) in at least 3 model years of the Apex/Attak.
Thanks again fellas!
Honestly...I would be very happy if Yamaha put out a recall on the dreaded idler wheels. I'm on my 4th set in a little over 3,000 miles. Thats all I want from Yamaha is a better wheel and mount. The other stuff mentioned in your posts would be fantastic as well but its the damn idler wheels that keeps my Apex off the trails.
What a fantastic sled the Apex/Attak is. I absolutly love it but as Rex mentioned and I have mentioned on a previous post on another thread....its the "little things" that really grab my a$$. The little things that havent been addressed (by Yamaha) in at least 3 model years of the Apex/Attak.
Thanks again fellas!
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