The present Yamaha line up has nothing in it to make me want to buy new. Seems like there are quite a few on the site that feel the same way. Unlike my past 2-strokes where I'd be getting nervious around 3000 miles and want to replace it, I've got no reservations about keeping my Nytro.
The big sellers in the past 25 years were the original '84 Phazer, the '89 and later 500 Indy's, the '93 and later XLT's, and the Ski-doo Rev's introduced in '03. All these sleds produced huge sales for their OEM's. Out of all of them, the Rev was the most revolutionary by simply reorganizing the placement of existing parts (most off the ZX chassis) they created the rider forward design.
What would Yamaha need to offer to make you buy new? I'm wondering if they need to offer something completely new and radical or just repackage existing parts? Are they missing an engine size/HP/configuration?
Judging from the past the common theme of a sucessful sled is light weight, good handling, good deep snow performance, good ride and a powerful, peppy motor for it's size. Also interesting is none of these sucessful sleds were at the top of the HP classes.
The big sellers in the past 25 years were the original '84 Phazer, the '89 and later 500 Indy's, the '93 and later XLT's, and the Ski-doo Rev's introduced in '03. All these sleds produced huge sales for their OEM's. Out of all of them, the Rev was the most revolutionary by simply reorganizing the placement of existing parts (most off the ZX chassis) they created the rider forward design.
What would Yamaha need to offer to make you buy new? I'm wondering if they need to offer something completely new and radical or just repackage existing parts? Are they missing an engine size/HP/configuration?
Judging from the past the common theme of a sucessful sled is light weight, good handling, good deep snow performance, good ride and a powerful, peppy motor for it's size. Also interesting is none of these sucessful sleds were at the top of the HP classes.
monte1214
TY 4 Stroke Guru
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2005
- Messages
- 752
- Location
- Durham Region, ON
- Website
- www.portperrysnowmobileclub.com
- Country
- Canada
- Snowmobile
- 2017 Sidewinder LTX-SE
- I already like the Apex reliabilty and performance...price matching the other OEMs would get me considering a new Yamaha.
- In Canada, you're looking at $15g's for a new Apex.
- In Canada, you're looking at $15g's for a new Apex.
Four cylinders
A seat which can be adjusted very low
No torsion springs in the rear suspension
136 or 151" tracks
More fuel
No cast structural parts
No tools to open the hood or remove the seat or replace the airbox
A durable simplified exhaust system
Hot grips (tm)
More engine braking
Less bulkhead braking
A seat which can be adjusted very low
No torsion springs in the rear suspension
136 or 151" tracks
More fuel
No cast structural parts
No tools to open the hood or remove the seat or replace the airbox
A durable simplified exhaust system
Hot grips (tm)
More engine braking
Less bulkhead braking
ecopter
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Get rid of the rear exhaust! Too much extra weight which in turn, creates even more extra weight with the ice buildup. Redesigning this would cause them to completely remodify the current chassis; and possibly the engine to accomodate a new exhaust.
It would also allow a different seat adaptation that could make for better storage, or none at all if you so choose......kinda like some of the other OEM seats available (naked in the back and under the seat).
That big, heavy exhaust ultimately kills the ergonomics, performance, and efficiency of the sled.
jf
It would also allow a different seat adaptation that could make for better storage, or none at all if you so choose......kinda like some of the other OEM seats available (naked in the back and under the seat).
That big, heavy exhaust ultimately kills the ergonomics, performance, and efficiency of the sled.
jf
low slung
TY 4 Stroke Master
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2005
- Messages
- 1,419
Less weight(40 pounds less),more CF castings(get rid of the front tubed bulkhead),keep existing motors,rear mounted exhaust which is shorter and lighter.All new chassis with the weight very close to the 1997 700sx.This with yamaha quality and reliabilty would be a winner.As for getting more sales?Just sell a two-stroke with lots of bling and a motor that leaves you high and dry,and your wallet even lighter.Seems to work for the other three sled builders(yamahas have such a high standard that they can,t play the rip-off game).As for price?Keep it the same or less than it is now.Your want sticker shock just walk into a Poo,doo,or cat dealer and check the MSRP.I can pick up a brand new 2010 phazer GT at my local dealer right now for $7200CDN+tax.Around here yamaha has the best deals.
Super Sled
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2009
- Messages
- 3,631
- Location
- Riding on the North Shore, MN
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- Summit X
A powerful, lightweight off trail sled that handles as well as the new 'Cat and has a turbo option if it's 4 stroke.
CASH!
But seriusly a Phazer like chassies with better quality parts(lower weight) a 2cyl 700cc fourstroke engine, 151 track, 110-120hp, Better runningboards lower attack angle. The phazer is has such great handling, all my friends gets shocked when they try it out
I´m afraid i´ll get really bored with the phazers HP, this will be the 3:e year with the phazer engine, 2nd year with the MTX. Yamaha really needs to fill the gap between the phazer and nytro
But seriusly a Phazer like chassies with better quality parts(lower weight) a 2cyl 700cc fourstroke engine, 151 track, 110-120hp, Better runningboards lower attack angle. The phazer is has such great handling, all my friends gets shocked when they try it out
I´m afraid i´ll get really bored with the phazers HP, this will be the 3:e year with the phazer engine, 2nd year with the MTX. Yamaha really needs to fill the gap between the phazer and nytro
kinger
VIP Member
I would be interested in a sporty 120-130hp 2 stroke lightweight 144" sled. With yamaha's DI system that they use on outboards. Talking about 400lbs wet and narly looking barely resembling a snowmobile, Lower to the ground but with new suspension that still allows for similar travel.
zeke66
Expert
Under tunnel exhaust.
Factory supercharger for sea level/trail riders.
Something like the Ski Doo R motion for easy adjusting.
Under tunnel is biggest IMO. It opens up a world of possibilities.
New split skis on all sleds.
10 gallon tanks on all sleds.
Factory supercharger for sea level/trail riders.
Something like the Ski Doo R motion for easy adjusting.
Under tunnel is biggest IMO. It opens up a world of possibilities.
New split skis on all sleds.
10 gallon tanks on all sleds.
Ruckus
TY 4 Stroke Master
A choice of 2T or 4T, one chassis for multiple sleds, GET RID OF THE REAR EXITING EXHAUST! ITS NOT AN ATV! Lower the center of gravity for the Nytro and Phazer . Better skis, better track, better steering components and AT LEAST 50 LBS LIGHTER for the smaller sleds. Why throw extra weight (EPS "extra poundage system") at a weight problem? Just make the damn things lighter and less complicated. Yeah, the engines are reliable but c'mon...ya need to hit the gym for a year to lift one out of a stuck. Lets face it...Yamaha got it wrong in the off-trail department. Its time for a rebirth.
7 skulls
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Having just spent a few days with a 700 Raptor, it has alot of what I want in a snowmobile. The swing arm track suspension is a yamaha patent, use a chain drive to get the reduction from the secondary back (has to be lighter than a chain case). Use the 4-stroke engine to their advantage as a stressed member directly ahead or even under the rider.
Yamaha has built sleds of their motorcycle line, now build a sled off their sport atv line with a little more grunt.
As for anyone who still questions the rear exit exhaust, look at every other form of motor sport. As for weight, I agree it needs to come down for off trail riding. Does anyone think the original rev was heavy? My current ride is the same weight or lighter than a rev 600, polaris 600 rush or ac f-series 600, while mine has electric start, reverse and a 10 gallon tank. But being an off-trail rider, every pound counts, so lighter is better.
If yamaha has something jaw-dropping for 2013, I'm there. If not, I'll keep on riding my nytro and maybe supplement it with a yzf 450 while I wait.
Yamaha has built sleds of their motorcycle line, now build a sled off their sport atv line with a little more grunt.
As for anyone who still questions the rear exit exhaust, look at every other form of motor sport. As for weight, I agree it needs to come down for off trail riding. Does anyone think the original rev was heavy? My current ride is the same weight or lighter than a rev 600, polaris 600 rush or ac f-series 600, while mine has electric start, reverse and a 10 gallon tank. But being an off-trail rider, every pound counts, so lighter is better.
If yamaha has something jaw-dropping for 2013, I'm there. If not, I'll keep on riding my nytro and maybe supplement it with a yzf 450 while I wait.
Yamanimal
Veteran
zeke66 said:
exactly what I was thinking, minus the skis. I dont think there is 1 ski that's works all, and people will change them anyway regardless.
thrasher
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2006
- Messages
- 688
- Location
- Ottawa Valley, Ontario
- Country
- Canada
- Snowmobile
- 06 Vector RS ER
ecopter's post got it right. All the sled companies copy other sled companies good ideas with their own spin. No one copied that rear exhaust because it's just not an efficient design with regards to the whole package. Yamaha needs to go on a diet, not just adding more weight and gadgets to compensate for poor fundamental design issues, and then tell us that's what was needed all along.
Similar threads
