Two-Stroke..... Said I'd never buy another but.....

[74Nitro]

I made 8 or 9 passes with the 1000 V-Max engine I built on the asphalt. The 800 was a 1000 killer already, and my competition hated it. It drove a lot of people out of racing also! To this day, my buddy Ed Ensor tells me the story of how how he beat me off the line in 1000 Pro-Stock when he thought he had it in the bag until my little 800 V-Max came storming around him for the win. My good friend Bill Cudney threw his helmet off onto the ice in disgust, he said the day I can't outrun a 800 with a 1000 that he was done, he never raced again and gave it up. Marchbank never come back to the ice again when my 800 outran his 1000 at the Series. My 800 won the 1000 class at least 4 years at the World Series of Ice Drags as I recall. Hauck never stood a chance with any of his Yamahas. That 800 was just the finest Pro-Stock package and machine ever built even to this day.

I didn't need to build the 1000 V-Max engine, I just built it to drive a point home and because I could, just as an exclamation point. I took me 3 months to build that 1000 engine. When I ran it at Brainerd in the 800's short chassis, I didn't even bother building a set of dedicated 1000 pipes for it, I just used my existing 800 pipes. It was such an animal and upset that short chassis so bad. I ran worse 60 foot times by a bunch as it wanted to lift to much on the back wheels and spin, but it made up for it down track, it ran big speed out the backdoor! I never dynode it but knew it made 50-60 more HP than my 800 did that would already beat the 1000's.

Years after I sold the 1000 engine, Olaf Aaen told me he dynoed it at well over 305 HP with it using the 800 pipes the way I ran it. When they dynode it with pipes designed for the 1000 it made 320 HP! Keep in mind, a lot of people claim big power with their race engines, I see it all the time, but there's a difference between the power I have vs. what other claim. My 800 was smoking others claimed 300 HP 1000's already. My little 700 my wife just bought me back was smoking others claimed 200 horsepower three cylinder machines. How does that happen? They are either getting a bill of goods, or somehow messing up when they dyno. I know the answer as to why, but tend to keep it to myself as I've seen a lot in my years on the dyno and racing on the track. Peak power is also not so important, I'll just say that.

As for the 1000, I could see the handwriting on the wall, and knew it was going to get outlawed or penalized somehow. They were already upset about my 800 V-Max making the 1000's look bad and were changing the rules around me and that little 800 V-Max. The last season I ran the 800 on the ice, I had to weigh more than the 1000's! I decided to sell it all and get out of racing with the purse and factory money going away and the crazy politics. I got sick and tired of the ever changing rules, that and with the money going away, it was jut way less appealing to me. SnowCross was to blame and made ALL the factory money go away for the Drags, I had to chase and travel further to the big dollar races to make any kind of money any more.

I watched Ski-Doo and NSSR lawsuits happen, race directors get fired, and NSSR get kicked out of ISR, and rightfully so for the shenanigans going on behind the scenes. It was comical really, someone could actually make of movie of the corruption and the craziness my little Yamaha 800 V-Max created, but at the time it affected me personally a bit for a year or two. I built the V-Max and made the switch from Cat to Yamaha to get Yamaha involved with asphalt drag racing and NSSR. Long story short but Doo wanted the Yamaha GONE! There's MUCH more to the story but I can say, Karmas a bitch, and I can sit back and laugh about it now knowing how it all turned out for them.

I had had enough of the BS, so it was time for me to walk away. We worked extremely hard for so many years, but the time had come to hang it up.

I'd have to think that part of what made the 800 engine superior was that it could rev much higher along with the gear reduction.
250HP at 11000 is better than 250HP at 9000.

 

[journeyman]

Well the 700 has a bunch more Tq. than the 600 ever did, but peak Tq does not win races. Poweband width on the other hand is what makes it easy to win races, the difference between peak Tq and peak HP is where it's at. The 600 had no band width to speak of, which doesn't make for a real good drag

 

[journeyman]

Ok I was curious how it compared to those 800 triples on torque. I remember Olav stressing trying to build pipes that are not peaky and have a nice backup torque curve in relation to the HP curve. In essence to what you are saying, good bandwidth or a broad power curve.

Getting back to your 700, all I know is that thing was very impressive. It would be fun to see it run again. I guess I’m old because I’m more entertained by a good drag race any day over a snowcross race. Just me I guess.

 

[74Nitro]

How about some more details in regards to what was good about that engine?
It was somewhat unique with the combination of piston port and the reeds directing air into crankcase.
RPM's?

 

[KnappAttack]

How about some more details in regards to what was good about that engine?
It was somewhat unique with the combination of piston port and the reeds directing air into crankcase.
RPM's?

The 700 Suzuki twin was the predecessor to the F7 engine. Nothing about it too special about it other than it can be made into a very sought package in the proper hands. It can rev right up with the proper packaging. The reed or I should say half reed, is different for sure, I don't know how much it really helps with power production over not having it.

The 700 Wildcat engine was like an anvil and you couldn't break it, like most of the Cat/Suzukis were. IMO a 700 is about the max size you'd want a twin cylinder two-stroke to be, any bigger and they really want to destroy clutches and clutch parts, they vibrate badly and like to tear themselves apart over time. The triples were so much smoother and of course better sounding. Dont know why Polaris and Doo now Cat keep making these 850 twins. If one of them went back to a triple it'd be all the rage again and they'd sell tons of them as trail weapons. I think people are over the SnowCross deal myself.

 

[Turboflash]

The 700 Suzuki twin was the predecessor to the F7 engine. Nothing about it too special about it other than it can be made into a very sought package in the proper hands. It can rev right up with the proper packaging. The reed or I should say half reed, is different for sure, I don't know how much it really helps with power production over not having it.

The 700 Wildcat engine was like an anvil and you couldn't break it, like most of the Cat/Suzukis were. IMO a 700 is about the max size you'd want a twin cylinder two-stroke to be, any bigger and they really want to destroy clutches and clutch parts, they vibrate badly and like to tear themselves apart over time. The triples were so much smoother and of course better sounding. Dont know why Polaris and Doo now Cat keep making these 850 twins. If one of them went back to a triple it'd be all the rage again and they'd sell tons of them as trail weapons. I think people are over the SnowCross deal myself.

I would second these thoughts about the "anvil" 700 Zuk twin. I had a '94 ZR700 w same engine that came with dual carbs and dual pipes. It was ported, prepped, piped, and dynoed by PSI back in the day, just over 160 HP and it was super-light. I used to run it at local drag races and trails in southern MN. Beat the *^&% out of it. It was bullet proof even in my hands, LOL. At peak, it ran at about 76-7750 RPM with pistons modified ((shortened skirts) albeit with shorter piston life) and right pipes but still had monster low-end torque (with timing adjustment). Mine had a Cutler all-aluminum bulkhead, Cutler all chrome moly A-arms, Boss ultra-light shortened seat, all hollow race-bolts throughout sled, titanium jackshaft and titanium drive shaft, all carbon fiber hood, oil-injection delete (pre-mix only), plastic skis (came with steel), chrome moly handlebars, chrome moly steering post. Ultralight Cutler brake disc, magnesium chain cases. I also copied the front and rear skid arms in chrome moly. At the time, no after-market company made these in chrome moly. Ready to ride at the time it weighed about 405 lbs. It was really fun to ride always. The power-to-weight ratio was fun. Still have it in mothballs somewhere.

 

[sideshowBob]

I would second these thoughts about the "anvil" 700 Zuk twin. I had a '94 ZR700 w same engine that came with dual carbs and dual pipes. It was ported, prepped, piped, and dynoed by PSI back in the day, just over 160 HP and it was super-light. I used to run it at local drag races and trails in southern MN. Beat the *^&% out of it. It was bullet proof even in my hands, LOL. At peak, it ran at about 76-7750 RPM with pistons modified ((shortened skirts) albeit with shorter piston life) and right pipes but still had monster low-end torque (with timing adjustment). Mine had a Cutler all-aluminum bulkhead, Cutler all chrome moly A-arms, Boss ultra-light shortened seat, all hollow race-bolts throughout sled, titanium jackshaft and titanium drive shaft, all carbon fiber hood, oil-injection delete (pre-mix only), plastic skis (came with steel), chrome moly handlebars, chrome moly steering post. Ultralight Cutler brake disc, magnesium chain cases. I also copied the front and rear skid arms in chrome moly. At the time, no after-market company made these in chrome moly. Ready to ride at the time it weighed about 405 lbs. It was really fun to ride always. The power-to-weight ratio was fun. Still have it in mothballs somewhere.

Back in the early 90s [pre my 800 Vmax 4 days] I built a very similar full meal deal ultra light 650 Indy with Decker Pipes, Mod ported O2 cylinders, 44 Lectron carbs, ect ect. I used the sled for radar runs, and snow drags and had some very successful years. Too bad we never ran across each other...it would have been fun!

 

[cannondale27]

Love hearing this history. Glad you got a piece of yours back.

 

[74Nitro]

The 700 Suzuki twin was the predecessor to the F7 engine. Nothing about it too special about it other than it can be made into a very sought package in the proper hands. It can rev right up with the proper packaging. The reed or I should say half reed, is different for sure, I don't know how much it really helps with power production over not having it.

The 700 Wildcat engine was like an anvil and you couldn't break it, like most of the Cat/Suzukis were. IMO a 700 is about the max size you'd want a twin cylinder two-stroke to be, any bigger and they really want to destroy clutches and clutch parts, they vibrate badly and like to tear themselves apart over time. The triples were so much smoother and of course better sounding. Dont know why Polaris and Doo now Cat keep making these 850 twins. If one of them went back to a triple it'd be all the rage again and they'd sell tons of them as trail weapons. I think people are over the SnowCross deal myself.

I remember hearing that Yamaha had made different engine reduction gears available for the Vmax fours. So that the racers spinning the four over 10000 could keep the clutch at 8000ish. Is that true Mike?

 

[STAIN]

I also had a 92 700 Wildcat and then a 1994 ZR700 that I had John Hooper port the cylinders. Both sleds where a blast to ride.
Those sleds where ahead of the curve on the big twin craze that took over the sled market.
Love hearing old racing stories.

 

[STAIN]

IMO a 700 is about the max size you'd want a twin

Somewhere there is an article from back in the day with and interview with a Yamaha rep explaining why they never made a big twin. It was all about how the efficiency and longevity of twin starts to diminish when the size got above a certain cc. The dealers were screaming for a big twin to compete with the ZR's and XC's but Yamaha refused to make a twin of that size and instead went with the 3 cylinder 600 and 700.
I wish I could find that article.

 

[74Nitro]

The reason manufacturers went to twins over triples is because a single pipe on a triple just won't deliver the same HP per cc as the single pipe on a twin.
Triple/triples died because of cost and just no room to fit three pipes on the current more-compact sleds.

In addition, manufacturers could care less if your sled blows up after 6000-8000 miles.(they actually want it to)

 

[journeyman]

I agree with Mike on a 700 twin is about as big as they should go.

I grew up with sleds in my family going back to 1970 so I was always around them. I bought my first snowmobile on my own in 1988, a brand new Phazer, I was 24 years old. At the time I wanted to gain more technical knowledge on clutching and carbs so I went to an Olav Aaen clinic he would occasionally hold. I remember him touching on this very subject saying 800 and larger twins were not good motors, vibrations, fuel scavenging, heat issues, etc.

As for triples with a single pipe, yes he touched on this too considering a twin’s pulse waves are 180 degrees apart so a single pipe can work pretty good but with a triple that third pulse interference is a problem. The only manufacturer that somewhat got around that was Yamaha with the SX Viper with the ignition and staggered head compression. I had one of those for years and it was a pretty darn good performer.

 

[Skurtenb]

Technically, "I" didn't buy it, and technically what I said was "I'd never buy another for TRAIL RIDING", but my sweet WIFE actually bought it for me and surprised me with it! Its not a "trail sled" but my old 91 Improved stock Wildcat 700 "Race Sled" that I built and won so many races with. This thing brings back so many memories, I used to let off the throttle mid-track so I didn't absolutely drive the competition away. I found it quite funny that people would come up to us and say "I was catching you" or "I just ran out of room to catch you".... Some people or racers knew what I was doing, some didn't. Fun stuff! It all started with racing this thing to build up my engine building business, and this is the sled that really kicked off my professional drag racing career.

Long story, but my good buddy wanted to run some vintage and classic races. He wanted me to build him a old 700 Cat. Instead, I called the guy in Maine (another good friend) that I sold my 91 Wildcat 700 to. He still had it and it had been sitting for a while. I got my local buddy hooked up with him and they made a deal. He had it shipped back here and brought it to me so I could go thru it and get it back in shape and ready to win again. We spent a couple days tearing it down and ready to rip again. He swapped a 129" track into it after it left here and changed the looks of it, when it went our East, It got a paint job and ended up with a bit more purple on it than he wanted. So he slowly got back to the green and more of the original look put back into it. Still not there yet, or perfect by any means. We fired it up in the garage I kicked myself for not buying it myself. It sounded just like I remembered. It was a sled that was so fast and unbeatable it was uncanny. Brought back so many good memories!

Not a sled in the day could run with this Cat 700 in the Improved class, not even the 800's triples or 880 V-Max's. I say 880's because Hauck had built his Open Improved 880 V-Max-4 before I had my 1000 Thundercat Open Improver done for the 93 season, I had to race this 700 against him the for the first race of that 93 season. Hauck beat me the first race with that 880 V-Max on Saturday by a ski length is all. I didnt have time to get the 700 ready for the first race so I let my crew chief ready the sled for the season. My Wife was pregnant and on bed rest, so I had to take care of her before the sled, I had no choice but to let him ready it. Well after we were done racing that Saturday night I figured we had better do something to come back on Sunday to make an attempt to beat him, I elected to gear down and give that a try, I went to tip the sled on it side to make the gear change and save the chaincase oil, but before tipping it on the side, we have to pull the belt to prevent gas spillage from getting on the belt and ruining it. Low and behold I found the wrong belt on the it. My crew chief had put a belt on that we knew to be a slower belt from testing earlier on. So I geared it down and installed the known faster belt for Sunday. We came back for Sundays race and into the final we go, right alongside Hauck and that 880 Open Improved V-Max again. The light went green and we both came out side by side, my little 700 that could pulled away for the win and put a solid length on him. I had won that Sunday race by more than he beat me on Saturday! Couldn't have scripted it any better!

One week later Yamaha Corporate put a two page centerfold add in SnowWeek that read "V-Max-4 Wins Mid-America". I was so absolutly pissed off that I vowed I'd never let off the gas again the whole season. The next race we went to, Hauck was taunting me in the pits, "here kitty kitty" he say every time he saw me in the pits. I'd laugh to myself as he didnt even know I had my Thundercat in the trailer ready to race. It was comical because we had just fired it up for the first time the day before out in testing on the ice. We had it absolutely flying and running the numbers before I broke something very critical, I had to get some parts welded up and was up till 3AM putting it all back together. I knew the competition was in for a world of hurt! When I pulled that T-Cat out of the trailer and fired it up it was unreal, know one knew I had it or what it was capable of! It was all over but the crying for Hauck, he never won another race or even came close in open improved if I was at the racetrack. That 700 Wildcat and 1000 T-Cat I had was an unbeatable combination for many years, but that 700, that was the little "underdog". I won the World Series of Ice in 93 that season with it by an actual 2-3 bus lengths in the final. People were stunned at how incredibly fast it really was when I stayed on the gas. I had vowed to never let off again after Yamaha pissed me off with that SnowWeek add, if I remember correctly there were 42 or 43 sleds in AA Improved stock. A few weeks latter we went back to Cedarville MI and went on the timing lights at that Cedarvile race in back in 93 for the first time, (it was the first time races had been run on timing lights, prior to this it was just a camera used to call the winners at the finish line). I won that race by over a half a second with that 700! It ran equal number to the winner of the 650 Pro-Stock class and thats when I realized it was a mistake to run it full out on the timers or at the World Series. The next season the AA Improved class had dwindled to just 20 entrants. I had driven literally half of the competition away with this little 91 700 Wildcat. I even took it speed running and set a record with it in 50 Degree weather and slushy conditions before I had sold it, it drove the competition nuts!

Anyway, I had asked my buddy to give me first dibs on this sled when it was time for him to sell it, and he did, he ultimately just wanted to trail ride and not race anymore, but I elected to pass on it not wanting to race anymore either. I thought about just putting it up on the shelf to to look at to bring back those awesome memories. My wife heard me turn him down on the sled that night on the phone, she then secretly bought it for me the next evening when I saw it up for sale online, I was already kicking myself. She knew it was an opportunity I'd never get back, she knew I would kick myself forever.... I saw it for sale for only one day and then the add was taken down. Sure enough, I kicked myself for days, unbeknownst to me my wife had secretly purchased it for me to put on the shelf. I was ranting around and pouting that weekend, she was forced to tell me she had secretly bought it for me. I didn't believe her until she showed me the texts between her and my friend. I couldn't believe it....

What a wife!

Anyway after all that rambling and reminiscing, here's my old 700 the way it is now.

View attachment 173784

View attachment 173785






This is what it looked like back in the day. Front cover of 94 PSI catalog.




View attachment 173786

Mike,
I have t his poster and it’s in very good shape. Would you be interested in it? The folds make it look worse than it is.

 

[KnappAttack]

I remember hearing that Yamaha had made different engine reduction gears available for the Vmax fours. So that the racers spinning the four over 10000 could keep the clutch at 8000ish. Is that true Mike?

That is correct. There were under drive gears available. Also what makes the Apex edge so desirable for turning big RPM.