LB - I don't think the issue is friction as much as it is inertia.
Oh, and I can feel the difference between a 1/4 and a full tank of gas. Sometimes it is the difference between first place and first loser when I line up on the lake. When there is a lot of big iron lining up, I'll keep enough gas in my tank for about 8 passes, then it's back to the pumps.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
lakercr said:
If that were the case, then with sufficient distance, you could accelerate it to infinite velocity with a very small fraction of the power.
When accelerating, think of friction as MORE WEIGHT. When you are going 0 mph, you have 0 additional weight. When you are going 25 mph, you have 500 lbs more weight, when you are going 50 mph, you have 2000 lbs more weight, 100 mph, 7500 lbs. <-- don't doubt these numbers, they're by far on the LOW side.
Also, when you have a 750 lb sled with 150 hp (1hp:5lbs), and a 430 lb sled with 100 (1hp:4.3lbs), EMPTY and NO RIDER power to weight is in favour of the lighter and weaker sled, but it is NOT AS FAST due to the friction. If you add 1000 lbs to each of those, you end up with 1750 lb @ 150 hp (1hp:11.7lbs) and 1430 @ 100 hp (1hp:14.3lbs). Power to weight favours the heavier sled. Whether the force be applied through friction or actual dead weight inertia is irrelevant - it has the same effect, EXCEPT that friction keeps on increasing!
rx1mtn
Expert
I didn't buy my sled to race, either on the lake or the trail. I bought it to ride. I don't notice the weight full tank or MT. The 1 thing I did notice that it handled a lot like my 98 Venture. The only tie I really notice the weight is when Im stuck in DEEP snow. When the track is full of snow, it becomes about 800 Lbs. and you still need at least 2 people, just like my old Bravo or my buds 800 Summet.
LB - in your example you mentioned the lighter/smaller HP sled having the advantage in the first 25'. My point was that I think inertia (and its effect on the heavier sled trying to hook up) is what favors the less powerful sled initially. No question that friction becomes the limiter as speeds increase - it is always going to be the biggest force acting in the dirrection opposite that which you are trying to move.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
Yes. The point is that its only an advantage for the first 100 feet. At 200 feet, the smaller machine gets passed like its standing still. I don't know of anyone who races less than 500 feet, by which time there's 100+ feet of gap.
BlgsRX-1mtn
TY 4 Stroke God
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2003
- Messages
- 1,530
- Location
- Billings, MT
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- '03 RX-1 Mountain LE
Why does everyone make such a big deal about sled weight? For us mountain guys it is simple. It's not about being able to tell the difference personally, it's about the mark on the hill. And believe me everyone can tell the difference between a full tank and 1/4 tank of fuel on a hill in powder. the fact that rx1mtn made about them all being heavy when stuck is true, but the 40 lbs I have shed has gotten me further than I could get last year.
kmer
Expert
QCRider... good post... read my mind. :wink:
I can't feel the difference between a full and MT tank under normal circumstance (ie: NOT drag racing) either. 8)
So, why does everyone make such a big deal?.... This is my 'take' on it...
We've seen huge gains in performance and ride quality in snowmobiling over the last few decades. Relatively speaking, it seems the envelope, in the areas of engine and suspension, will only stretch so much further. :roll:
IMHO, 'weight' is like the 'final frontier'. It's the last place to look to find gains to be had, relatively speaking of course. The only limiting factor is that the price of unobtanium materials to make the stuff out of. A game only those with deep pockets are ready to play. Well, at least I can 'watch'. LOL. :lol:
In most of the conditions we ride in (high speed drifted lake running), the weight of the RX is actually a benefit offering a stable ride. Just ask my buddy with the F-7 just how long he would entertain trying to keep up to me on Minitaki Lake with Civic-sized drifts every 15' for 5 miles. The answer?.... why not very long at all. :wink:
I can't feel the difference between a full and MT tank under normal circumstance (ie: NOT drag racing) either. 8)
So, why does everyone make such a big deal?.... This is my 'take' on it...
We've seen huge gains in performance and ride quality in snowmobiling over the last few decades. Relatively speaking, it seems the envelope, in the areas of engine and suspension, will only stretch so much further. :roll:
IMHO, 'weight' is like the 'final frontier'. It's the last place to look to find gains to be had, relatively speaking of course. The only limiting factor is that the price of unobtanium materials to make the stuff out of. A game only those with deep pockets are ready to play. Well, at least I can 'watch'. LOL. :lol:
In most of the conditions we ride in (high speed drifted lake running), the weight of the RX is actually a benefit offering a stable ride. Just ask my buddy with the F-7 just how long he would entertain trying to keep up to me on Minitaki Lake with Civic-sized drifts every 15' for 5 miles. The answer?.... why not very long at all. :wink:
Pinball Wizzard
Pro
I Mostly ride off trail but I can tell the difference between a full tank and a tank that has around 3 gallons less in it.
Weight is always an issue or why would everyone want better skis or other mods.
Weight is always an issue or why would everyone want better skis or other mods.
Kachess
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Unfortunately, when climbing, weight is a really big deal. The difference between being able to carve your sled back uphill, and not being able to, can be a totalled sled. Big guys can horse around a heavier sled, but at 140 every pound off the sled helps a ton. I've even calibrated my gas gauge so I don't have to carry any more gas than is absolutely necessary. BlgsRX-1mtn, I strongly recommend the Holtz rear as a way of getting rid of another 35lbs. With that single addition you leapfrog the stock 800cc two strokes on climbing ability.
QCRider
TY 4 Stroke Master
My mistake, I meant to put a caviat in the original post about Powder Riding. I can absolutely understand how every pound would make a difference in Powder/Mountain riding. I was speaking to the trail riders/lake runners. Sorry
I like the fact this sled is fairly heavy, I would not want a Firecat or equivilent sled to trail ride full time with the power levels of a turbo Rx. The RX seems to handle the power very well :!:
Rx1 cowboy
Expert
the big deal is made because some losers actual believe anything a magazine says, i like a heavier sled for faster riding it feels more stable, i had the chance to ride a fairy cat and the damn thing couldnt track a strait line or turn a corner for #*$&@
monker
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Weight is mostly hype. In deep snow it does become an issue, but the right setup (horsepower and transfer) can overcome weight. On trails, it doesn't make as much of a difference. The biggest thing is racing, where lighter is associated with faster. If something is lighter, then it must be faster too, right? :roll: ? It is mostly perception and marketing.
Slush Monster
Expert
I have been arguing the point abought the the weight change a sled
will go through from full to empty with some of the people I ride with.
I can feel a slight differance from full to empty in my mm 700. Abought
a 70 LB loss when on empty. Does it make any differance? NO. Alot of
How a sled will perform especially in deep snow I think is abought 80%
rider ability. Now I will admit if all you want to do is go fast or be the
highest mark than light is good. It seems yamaha has went more towards
building well built tough reliable sleds that are FUN! I say way to go
yamaha! If you need a flying tin can buy somthing else! My buddys rmk
just had the engine sieze back in the boondocks 2nd time in 2 years.
He was always braging is was a big 15 lbs lighter than mine. As if he could
really tell! I will take my slightly heavyer yamaha anyday! 6000 miles
and not ONE problem. And did I say FUN
will go through from full to empty with some of the people I ride with.
I can feel a slight differance from full to empty in my mm 700. Abought
a 70 LB loss when on empty. Does it make any differance? NO. Alot of
How a sled will perform especially in deep snow I think is abought 80%
rider ability. Now I will admit if all you want to do is go fast or be the
highest mark than light is good. It seems yamaha has went more towards
building well built tough reliable sleds that are FUN! I say way to go
yamaha! If you need a flying tin can buy somthing else! My buddys rmk
just had the engine sieze back in the boondocks 2nd time in 2 years.
He was always braging is was a big 15 lbs lighter than mine. As if he could
really tell! I will take my slightly heavyer yamaha anyday! 6000 miles
and not ONE problem. And did I say FUN
