XTX Limiter straps torn

[kkraus]

This will have to be a recall by Yamaha because it is a safety issue. If both straps break your sled is going to have very different handling characteristics and could cause an accident. Come on Yamaha come up with a solution quick before someone gets hurt! Keep the reports coming guys!

 

[stewartb]

Re: My wear is at the top of the strap.

With my skid out I can recreate the problem consistently. mach9's photo illustrates the problem very well. Look at the loose loop over the top tube. When the front arm compresses the limiter strap becomes a 6" strap in a 3" space. When my strap reaches a certain amount of deflection the resistance causes the slack loop to rotate around the tube. This in turn moves the deflected strap right into the track. The bolt sticking out to the rear can only exacerbate the problem. It may be that the bolt catches the track first and pulls the strap in with it. I can see how it might happen but I can't duplicate it in the garage. Keep in mind that the only time this strap/track interference problem occurs is when the front arm is in fully compressed or very close to it. That probably explains why some guys don't have symptoms yet.

My solution is easy, quick and cheap. Replace the stock washers with fender washers, which are larger in diameter. This effectively closes the slack loop and puts some pinch pressure on the upper tube, preventing the easy rotation of the loop when the limiter strap is slack. All the deflection is directed to the rear, out of harm's way. This solution will prevent the problem from occurring again and doesn't require a trip to the dealer. The cost is about 20 cents for 4 washers and takes about 10 minutes to do on the sled. I'm turning my bolts so that the bolt head faces aft to reduce the potential for bolt interference as well.

Stewart

 

[mach9]

Re: My wear is at the top of the strap.

My solution is easy, quick and cheap. Replace the stock washers with fender washers, which are larger in diameter. This effectively closes the slack loop and puts some pinch pressure on the upper tube, preventing the easy rotation of the loop when the limiter strap is slack. All the deflection is directed to the rear, out of harm's way. This solution will prevent the problem from occurring again and doesn't require a trip to the dealer. The cost is about 20 cents for 4 washers and takes about 10 minutes to do on the sled. I'm turning my bolts so that the bolt head faces aft to reduce the potential for bolt interference as well.

Great idea. Thanks.
Reverse the bolt... That is a keen observation.
I never thought that the bolt direction should matter.
It is possible this problem was not only wrecking straps but could become track damage also due to bolts rotating up in there.

 

[Wis Sledder]

I have a question to everybody that has seen wear or broken limiter straps on their XTX, do you not feel that the straps being so close to the lugs on the track an issue? The way I see it is after your hyfax starts wearing the straps get even closer to the lugs on the track and this is still going to be a major wear point on the straps. I think the best solution would be to get the straps above the shaft and not wrapped around it.

How do the other manufactures address this on their sleds? I know that on my F6 Snow Pro had a loop welded to the top of the shaft so the strap was no where near the lugs on the track.

 

[stewartb]

In my observations of the limiters through their range of travel I see no issues at all at the bottom tube so I don't understand the hyfax comment. If the belt contacts the track at the bottom the track rotation will effectively push the strap away. On the top the track rotation grabs and pulls the limiter further into the track. I haven't seen a failure of a limiter at the bottom connection but if it happens I'd suspect the top connection is the problem. If the limiter gets caught up in the track at the top....something has to give.

Are you getting strap wear at the bottom similar to how mach9's and my photos showed our wear at the top?

SB

 

[kkraus]

One of mine had chunks out of the middle, the other side broke at the bottom.

 

[Wis Sledder]

If the slack in the strap bends toward the front of the sled,(caused by the lugs making contact at the bottom most point of the strap, spinning it) Remember I have a significant amount of wear on the shaft from the strap spinning back and forth, this is when the major damage is done to the straps but only if the front of the skid is compressed and the track catches the strap and pulls it toward the rear of the sled and possibly pinching it between the track and shaft.

Call me crazy but this is what I think is happening

 

[stewartb]

I won't call you crazy at all. I'd recommend you pull your skid and put it through the motions to find out what's really happening. Short of that, put a 4x4 under the front arm and have a couple of guys sit on the sled. In either case, which way does the limiter deflect? On both my sleds the limiter deflects aft. Every time. No exceptions. That said, my conclusions and my solution are based on what I've found. If aft deflection isn't typical I think that's an important point to investigate. Keep in mind that the upper tube belt loop would prevent the limiter from rotating forward at the top. I didn't look to see whether the lower tube has a guide fixture or not since my issue was so simple to diagnose with the skid out.

I'll have my hands in the skid again this evening and will look at the bottom tube's relationship to all this. I've compressed my front arm dozens of times on the floor and don't recall any significant movement at the bottom of the strap. But I missed the wear on my initial on-sled inspection, too.

SB

 

[Wis Sledder]

I won't call you crazy at all. I'd recommend you pull your skid and put it through the motions to find out what's really happening. Short of that, put a 4x4 under the front arm and have a couple of guys sit on the sled. In either case, which way does the limiter deflect? On both my sleds the limiter deflects aft. Every time. No exceptions. That said, my conclusions and my solution are based on what I've found. If aft deflection isn't typical I think that's an important point to investigate. Keep in mind that the upper tube belt loop would prevent the limiter from rotating forward at the top. I didn't look to see whether the lower tube has a guide fixture or not since my issue was so simple to diagnose with the skid out.

I'll have my hands in the skid again this evening and will look at the bottom tube's relationship to all this. I've compressed my front arm dozens of times on the floor and don't recall any significant movement at the bottom of the strap. But I missed the wear on my initial on-sled inspection, too.

SB

StewartB Wrote:
I won't call you crazy at all. I'd recommend you pull your skid and put it through the motions to find out what's really happening. Short of that, put a 4x4 under the front arm and have a couple of guys sit on the sled. In either case, which way does the limiter deflect? On both my sleds the limiter deflects aft. Every time. No exceptions.

Wis Sledder Wrote:
What if the track is spinning and the lugs on the track rub the straps? Now it has deflected them forward, correct? That’s what I’m trying to say.

StewartB Wrote:
That said, my conclusions and my solution are based on what I've found. If aft deflection isn't typical I think that's an important point to investigate. Keep in mind that the upper tube belt loop would prevent the limiter from rotating forward at the top. I didn't look to see whether the lower tube has a guide fixture or not since my issue was so simple to diagnose with the skid out.

 

[sprintcat]

Hi I am new here. I am going to check mine tonight. one ? why can't i see the pictures you guys are talking about? you mention pictures but I don't see them . thanks. Paul

 

[stewartb]

sprintcat, the problem being discussed is specific to the XTX model. The pictures are on page 3 of this discussion.

Wis Sledder, I had the opportunity to sneak home for a minute so I looked at my lower strap connections. Mine are much tighter than those at the top and the straps won't rotate without effort on my part to move them. That's the condition I'm trying to achieve at the top connections. I see no evidence that there's been any contact between my straps and the track at any point below the wear area shown in my pictures.

SB

 

[stewartb]

Final update.

Wis Sledder, if I lift the skid off the floor I can see where the drive lugs have worn very slightly on the limiters under the lower tube. There has been contact but the potential for more wear is slight. The limiters are fitted between spacers on the lower tube and can't move laterally. Mine don't move at all at the bottom.

Back to the top. Here is a picture of a common fender washer next to the stock washer. And then a picture of the loose loop with the stock washer. And finally a picture of the same loop after replacing the stock washers with fender washers. Photo #2 actually shows the near loop as stock and the far loop with the new washers. No more rotation and no more limiter/track conflict. I did change the bolts around to face forward. In fact the Ohlins installation requires it on the right side but I did both.

 

[sprintcat]

I have to agree with Wis Sledder. Let's not over engineer this problem. I think if we all can keep the strap's tight at both points it will be fine. I looked at my straps and they are fine but if I tighten the strap's there will be slack in the top.which will allow the strap to rotate
and cause the problem. this is just my opinion I am sure that someone out there will have a good fix.from reading
all the post's you always see a good fix. thank's Paul

 

[scratcher]

Washers

Just so I don't have to go home and take the old ones off to measure, what size are the fender washers? So I can just go buy some.

 

[stopdropanroll]

Final update.

Wis Sledder, if I lift the skid off the floor I can see where the drive lugs have worn very slightly on the limiters under the lower tube. There has been contact but the potential for more wear is slight. The limiters are fitted between spacers on the lower tube and can't move laterally. Mine don't move at all at the bottom.

Back to the top. Here is a picture of a common fender washer next to the stock washer. And then a picture of the loose loop with the stock washer. And finally a picture of the same loop after replacing the stock washers with fender washers. Photo #2 actually shows the near loop as stock and the far loop with the new washers. No more rotation and no more limiter/track conflict. I did change the bolts around to face forward. In fact the Ohlins installation requires it on the right side but I did both.

Great simple fix man, you should get a job at Yamaha.......hand warmers?