Yamaha motors

[Sasquatch]

2 strokes have one flaw that so far has not been addressed and that is the ability to go 20,000 plus miles without disassembly and rebuild! Ski-Doo was proud of thier 300 hour two strokes. that will get you 9,000 miles theoretically or less if your average mph goes down here I see average mph at 25 or 7,500 miles. Mountain guys will see much less because of full throttle runs up hill even less average mph and way more strain on the good stuff. They where also proud of thier 6% failure rate in the first year. Polaris is much higher! I went to Yamaha because of the Apex 4 stroke and its ability to stay together for a long long time! I was riding Cats big triples and knew the crank bearings failed at 10,000 miles give or take. I did not want that type of machine ever again. My Warrior is at 18,000 miles and my Apex at 12,000, this is why I ride Yamaha, My sled does not have to be the fastest or the most agile it has to last and give me peace of mind. I hate things that go boom!

As far as emissions go way back they talked about NOX and particulate matter! They said the two stroke was high in one area that the EPA was not addressing but expected to, four strokes would over come the hurdle with catalytic converters but two stokes would have a harder time. I don't see cats on four strokes yet so don't know whats happening in that regard for the EPA!

 

[Vmax]

Time will tell if two strokes will be phased out or if technology can keep them around with the strict EPA standards. I am an old school sledder that believes two strokes must be kept alive, but every year whether it is sleds or boat motors I see them slipping away. My son started racing moto cross back in 2000 on a two stroke and within a few years his sponsor had him on a four stroke, he finished racing in 2006 and every racer had a 250cc or 450cc four stroke depending on the class they road in, the only two strokes on the circuit were the smaller 65cc and 85cc classes.

I guess I had better get with the times and prepare myself for having a four stroke sled in my garage soon. I do like the looks and power of the new Vipers so that is the one I will most likely pursue

 

[thor452]

Once you own a 4 stroke you will change your tune trust me I even used to love the smell of my jacket in the morning after ridding all day the day before because that 2 smoke stink smelled like snowmobiling to me. I thought no way can a 4 stroke tank even compare to a 2 stroke screamer. Then I got my first 4 stroke and all the sudden everything changed. I ride with 4 strokes and when out for a ride all the sudden you smell a noxious fume and you know there is some 2 strokes up ahead and you want to either catch them and pass them. then you wake in the morning and your gear smells like crisp clean winter air and that becomes the new smell of snowmobiling. Then you got the 4 stroke bug and there is no know cure.

 

[Vmax]

I hear ya thor452 I just have to convince myself that the sweet smell and sound of a 2 stroke is no longer appealing..........lol

 

[thor452]

It wont take long once you feel the endless pull of the apex.

 

[Vmax]

I will probably pursuit the Viper. I like the look of it and most say it is the best 4 stroke engine in the business, I'm sure Sidewinder owners will beg to differ

 

[thor452]

viper is a fun sled if you don't like to go fast you will have to put a turbo on it if you want real power. they sound like a tractor as well. but to each their own. the apex has the most proven motor out on the market and it has all the power you are used to. but to each their own. I was never a fan of the viper they are just too slow for me. I would either go apex as a nice intro to the 4 stroke or go sidewinder if you really want a thrill.

 

[Vmax]

I am pushing 60 years young so going Mach 1 on a sled is not what I am looking for anymore. I am however looking for a nice riding/handling trail sled with a bit of a wow factor when pushing the fun lever. 130 phonies of 4 stroke power in the Viper should do what I am looking for, as you said to each their own. I do respect and thank you for your input.

 

[Augie]

I am pushing 60 years young so going Mach 1 on a sled is not what I am looking for anymore. I am however looking for a nice riding/handling trail sled with a bit of a wow factor when pushing the fun lever. 130 phonies of 4 stroke power in the Viper should do what I am looking for, as you said to each their own. I do respect and thank you for your input.

I'm pushing 60 years as well And I hear ya about not going "mach 1" On a sled anymore. Just this year I came off of a very Well tuned Vmax 700 and bought an 06 apex/attak and I'm here to tell you I couldn't be Happier! the motor is amazing and I'm very pleased With the ride and handling of this trail sled.
Then I took a short ride On a friends 2012 apex and was even more impressed. I quickly forgot how much I loved the Vmax 700. Having said that I was very hesitant To move to a 4 stroke But after doing my research here I just wanted to try one. If you are at all like me and can't imagine owning a 4 stroke and are against having one then don't try it because in my humble opinion You'll end up on one.

 

[Vmax]

Thanks Augie.

I am not afraid of loving the 4 strokes, I have an open mind towards them. But the 2 strokes will always have a special place of my heart due to my age

I, like you, will make the leap and from what I am reading be glad I did...

 

[thor452]

I am pushing 60 years young so going Mach 1 on a sled is not what I am looking for anymore. I am however looking for a nice riding/handling trail sled with a bit of a wow factor when pushing the fun lever. 130 phonies of 4 stroke power in the Viper should do what I am looking for, as you said to each their own. I do respect and thank you for your input.

Yes I think you will be happy the viper is like a 600 V-max. a Vector is more like a 700 because of how the power is delivered. and the apex is like a 800. I just don't want you to be disappointed. you can do some clutching work like clutching on the cheap (cotc) to increase the vipers power delivery, and 60 is far from old!!!

 

[Chris Rose]

I'm closing in on 64 years young and thought my stage 1 buick was strong. Have a pt/sq 265 hp setup and WOW, very drivable, good mileage and good handling! It's my "medication ". Either way you choose, you will like the ride .

 

[Vmax]

Wait what?????

 

[stevewithOCD]

Something very important hasn't been mentioned here.
Emissions standards were put in place that were to get more strict as years went on. Yamaha realized that NO 2-stroke could meet those standards so they dumped all their money into 4-strokes. They were right.........BUT, the big companies lobbied to get those standards lowered and Yamaha got caught with their pants down.
Now as a trail rider, i will NOT go back to a 2-smoke & i see more 4-strokes than 2's these days on the trail.
But the off trail market is HUGE & winning Snocross is still important and both NEED light weight, so Yamaha's gamble cost them a lot of business.
Not to mention that SkiDoo has great marketing & played the weight issue very well.

Don't forget that Yamaha is #1 in world boat motor sales & they are all 4-stroke.

 

[Motorhead]

I will probably pursuit the Viper. I like the look of it and most say it is the best 4 stroke engine in the business, I'm sure Sidewinder owners will beg to differ

Do your homework and use this site’s Viper section, if you do decide to go with a Viper.

I was in the market for a Viper last season when I thought that my wife was ready to ride again after her back operation
I found that 16s were selling for less then other years. Had to do with engine rod upgrade/downgrade for some Viper motors. As I said, do your homework with some searching on the Viper forum!