UP bushman
VIP Member
Riding the 07 Phazer MTX today and surpassed the 6000 mile mark. Stopped and talked to another Phazer owner and found I have had good fortunes with my sled as far as issues. Riding home heard a strange noise coming from the top of the motor area figured I better check it out. Put the sled on the stand and removed both side covers to get started.
Checked gear case oil it's good and the belt looks good. Checked primary & secondary clutches and all looks good for proper operation. Started the sled and throttled up to engagement and my heart jumped in my chest. I noticed the primary clutch when it engaged the bolt and shaft of primary clutch flexed back towards secondary clutch.
I turned off sled and grabbed primary clutch and moved back and forth with some force. I have done that before and did not noticed the type of movement I did this time. Removed primary clutch and resorted to an age old testing method I've used in the past. Started the sled up and put a screw driver tip on gear reduction cover and put plastic end on my ear. This works like stethoscope like going to the doctor.
What I thought is true the outer bearing of the reduction gear deffinetly does not sound good. It sounds like a bearing that is bad in a car alternator. This unit is also one piece and must be replaced as a set shown in the picture. It sounds like a bearing that is bad in a car alternator. So it's time to talk to the my dealer which is great and see what they think. The sled is out of the YES warranty but at least it didn't blow and strand me in the bush. Sled is running good so maybe caught it before it let loose. I beat the snot out of this thing so will see.
Dealer Update:
Well today 3/17/11 was the day the dealer confirmed what I thought the reduction gear deffinetly has a bearing issue. He seems to think it is on the backside of the reduction gear instead off the front. Either way it needs to be replaced so the tear down will take place on Saturday 3/19/11. He did ease my concerns in the future that the Apex and Attack motors have the same reduction gear setup. They have been a very durable unit which is true even juiced or with a turbo.
Some good news is the total parts cost is $450.00 and Yamaha is gone to pay for half the parts. I will do the labor side of the repair and will take pictures as I go. I will say again my dealer is really been great and can't complain about Yamahas effort. The sled is out of warranty and I am thankful they are helping out.
Reduction Gear Removal:
Well did the 4hr job and pulled apart the sled to remove the reduction gear cover. That is a job in itself to get the cover off most of the sled gets tore apart short of pulling the motor right out. The findings were my greatest fear the back bearing for the reduction gear that is pressed in the engine block is spinning. That means when the sled warms up and everything expands the outer part of the bearing is spinning in the engine block. I deffinitely am sick now and the next step is cool down. I would have not been happy to have my sled go down during the season but this is just as bad with this report.
Final Dealer and Corporate Yamaha report:
Well today 3/24/11 was the day the final report is in from Corporate Yamaha and I am on my own because the warranty is up. When a defect in the engine case is the problem not a part that wears I don't agree but it is what it is now. If the sled was under warranty a new engine is what they would have done. But out of warranty they said peen the engine case and loctite the surface what a recommended fix. I know I can come up with something better than that.
The Intended Fix:
My buddy talked with a race geek he knows who has ran into rare problems and this is one of them and has a great fix for it. This guy had a race car and the bearing spun in the axle like mine did. He did the process mentioned below and the car is still racing today. I have more confidence in his fix than to peen the case and loctite the bearing due to the expansion and contraction of aluminum.
Get a piston sleeve feeler gauge set and determine they amount thats needed to shim to make a tight fit .001 or .002 thousandths of an inch. The process for install is to take the proper gauge thickness determined and cut a little shorter than the total outside diameter of bearing. 1- put the bearing in dry ice for 20 minutes and heat the engine case. 2- put the feeler gauge half way in the engine case around the pocket. 3- put the bearing into engine case with feeler gauge in place and tap into engine case until seated. 4- trim the remaining edge of feeler gauge that extends past engine case flush and that is it. This makes good sense and with expansion and contraction it's still locked in like it should be.
Reduction Gear Bearing Fix:
Well today is 3/31/11 and here goes the fix. The pictures below was the best I could do because time was a factor to install the bearing. First I put the bearing on dry ice for 2 hours to contract the bearing and it did by .0025. Second I then heated the case with a heat gun for 20 minutes. Third a feeler gauge of .003 was trimmed to fit in the engine case pocket end to end. Now was the moment of truth with a friends help we put the bearing in place and tapped it in with medium force. It will deffinitely be tight now that the components willl go back to there original state.
I will start and run the engine for a couple hours in the garage and pull back apart to check for anything out of the ordinary. I will report on this when completed and should be able to determine a good feeling of the repair.
Now the decision comes and I hate to say it but a change will most likely be coming. With 6000 miles this is the last thing I thought I would be dealing with in a Yamaha 4 Stroke motor. The TY Forum has been great and am thankful for the info here and to be able to share findings.
Checked gear case oil it's good and the belt looks good. Checked primary & secondary clutches and all looks good for proper operation. Started the sled and throttled up to engagement and my heart jumped in my chest. I noticed the primary clutch when it engaged the bolt and shaft of primary clutch flexed back towards secondary clutch.
I turned off sled and grabbed primary clutch and moved back and forth with some force. I have done that before and did not noticed the type of movement I did this time. Removed primary clutch and resorted to an age old testing method I've used in the past. Started the sled up and put a screw driver tip on gear reduction cover and put plastic end on my ear. This works like stethoscope like going to the doctor.
What I thought is true the outer bearing of the reduction gear deffinetly does not sound good. It sounds like a bearing that is bad in a car alternator. This unit is also one piece and must be replaced as a set shown in the picture. It sounds like a bearing that is bad in a car alternator. So it's time to talk to the my dealer which is great and see what they think. The sled is out of the YES warranty but at least it didn't blow and strand me in the bush. Sled is running good so maybe caught it before it let loose. I beat the snot out of this thing so will see.
Dealer Update:
Well today 3/17/11 was the day the dealer confirmed what I thought the reduction gear deffinetly has a bearing issue. He seems to think it is on the backside of the reduction gear instead off the front. Either way it needs to be replaced so the tear down will take place on Saturday 3/19/11. He did ease my concerns in the future that the Apex and Attack motors have the same reduction gear setup. They have been a very durable unit which is true even juiced or with a turbo.
Some good news is the total parts cost is $450.00 and Yamaha is gone to pay for half the parts. I will do the labor side of the repair and will take pictures as I go. I will say again my dealer is really been great and can't complain about Yamahas effort. The sled is out of warranty and I am thankful they are helping out.
Reduction Gear Removal:
Well did the 4hr job and pulled apart the sled to remove the reduction gear cover. That is a job in itself to get the cover off most of the sled gets tore apart short of pulling the motor right out. The findings were my greatest fear the back bearing for the reduction gear that is pressed in the engine block is spinning. That means when the sled warms up and everything expands the outer part of the bearing is spinning in the engine block. I deffinitely am sick now and the next step is cool down. I would have not been happy to have my sled go down during the season but this is just as bad with this report.
Final Dealer and Corporate Yamaha report:
Well today 3/24/11 was the day the final report is in from Corporate Yamaha and I am on my own because the warranty is up. When a defect in the engine case is the problem not a part that wears I don't agree but it is what it is now. If the sled was under warranty a new engine is what they would have done. But out of warranty they said peen the engine case and loctite the surface what a recommended fix. I know I can come up with something better than that.
The Intended Fix:
My buddy talked with a race geek he knows who has ran into rare problems and this is one of them and has a great fix for it. This guy had a race car and the bearing spun in the axle like mine did. He did the process mentioned below and the car is still racing today. I have more confidence in his fix than to peen the case and loctite the bearing due to the expansion and contraction of aluminum.
Get a piston sleeve feeler gauge set and determine they amount thats needed to shim to make a tight fit .001 or .002 thousandths of an inch. The process for install is to take the proper gauge thickness determined and cut a little shorter than the total outside diameter of bearing. 1- put the bearing in dry ice for 20 minutes and heat the engine case. 2- put the feeler gauge half way in the engine case around the pocket. 3- put the bearing into engine case with feeler gauge in place and tap into engine case until seated. 4- trim the remaining edge of feeler gauge that extends past engine case flush and that is it. This makes good sense and with expansion and contraction it's still locked in like it should be.
Reduction Gear Bearing Fix:
Well today is 3/31/11 and here goes the fix. The pictures below was the best I could do because time was a factor to install the bearing. First I put the bearing on dry ice for 2 hours to contract the bearing and it did by .0025. Second I then heated the case with a heat gun for 20 minutes. Third a feeler gauge of .003 was trimmed to fit in the engine case pocket end to end. Now was the moment of truth with a friends help we put the bearing in place and tapped it in with medium force. It will deffinitely be tight now that the components willl go back to there original state.
I will start and run the engine for a couple hours in the garage and pull back apart to check for anything out of the ordinary. I will report on this when completed and should be able to determine a good feeling of the repair.
Now the decision comes and I hate to say it but a change will most likely be coming. With 6000 miles this is the last thing I thought I would be dealing with in a Yamaha 4 Stroke motor. The TY Forum has been great and am thankful for the info here and to be able to share findings.
Attachments
APEX 06
TY 4 Stroke God
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- 09 Nytro XTX, 08 Apex Mtx
That sucks. Maybe its a sign from the snowmobile gods saying its time to get a new one. Lol
UP bushman
VIP Member
It is a sign that God Almighty made me aware of the noise to save the thing from gernading on me though.
kodak
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
sorry to hear bush but i'm sure you'll get it figured out, but I've been meaning to pm you about how well your steering kit worked. I saw you wrote on the summer mods thread about some increased hp could you give me a list of some proven bolt on mods that i can try i think i saw you did schmidt bro clutch kit ,i have the ulmer one but is just weights and spring was wondering if new helix helped performance. again sorry about the misfortune.
UP bushman
VIP Member
Well here is the update I went out and checked the bearing when sled was cold and it was tight as it should be. Warmed up the sled and the findings are the same as listed above the bearing is deffinetly shot with play it does not have cold nor should have. Asked the dealer to check one of his rental sleds when warmed up and he said it's just as tight as it was when it was cold.
I had the dealer on speaker phone and wiggled the reduction gear shaft and he could hear the metal clunking in the bearing. It will go to him soon to see it with his own eyes. Again I will say my dealer has been great for me and I will ask Yamaha for a replacement of reduction gear at least. The best rule of thumb is to do it with civility and kindness. So if you check your reduction gear bearing for play do it when it is good and warm. Read my end of season story below with attatched pictures..
The helmet in my hand is what I use to ride that was an Arctic Cat. I know own a Yamaha that took a Yama poo poo and now I had to borrow my buddys Ski Doo to finish out the season.
I had the dealer on speaker phone and wiggled the reduction gear shaft and he could hear the metal clunking in the bearing. It will go to him soon to see it with his own eyes. Again I will say my dealer has been great for me and I will ask Yamaha for a replacement of reduction gear at least. The best rule of thumb is to do it with civility and kindness. So if you check your reduction gear bearing for play do it when it is good and warm. Read my end of season story below with attatched pictures..
The helmet in my hand is what I use to ride that was an Arctic Cat. I know own a Yamaha that took a Yama poo poo and now I had to borrow my buddys Ski Doo to finish out the season.
Attachments
Ruckus
TY 4 Stroke Master
Rob,I thought you were some young punk, not an old guy like me! Hahaha
UP bushman
VIP Member
I felt like 41 year old man on the Doo no riser bar, no standing, no carving with ease man the disappointment grew that the MTX is down. I will say the Rev chassis is nice and stable and turns on a dime but pew it will have to do for now.
blueironranger
TY 4 Stroke God
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2009 Phazer MTX
UP bushman said:
Nicer than my backup sled, I had to ride my Phazer II for 600 miles this year when my motor popped under warranty. Nothing like trying to play keep up with a 57hp F/C sled that has 13,000 miles on it and 7" of rear travel! Thanks for the heads up, I'll make sure to check mine every couple of rides. Mine has NO freeplay in it currently with 2000 on the ODO.
Lashcat
Pro
Try being 46, it gets worse. I am so spoiled by my Phazer! If it does not ride as good or better than the phazer, I don't care to ride it.
UP bushman
VIP Member
Nice to know the target age for the Phazer is not the young and the women after all. It is indeed the old farts who still think they got it and we do it's just the body who doesn't get it.
UP bushman
VIP Member
Dealer update on beginning of thread.
Superman
TY 4 Stroke Master
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That's not so bad. If for some crazy reason we get to the U.P. for one more ride I'll end up riding my 91 phazer II ST. It seems I pretty much destroyed my track and cracked my exhaust in half on my Nytro on the last day of the Demo ride weekend..... I really wish we would have had a chance to hook up this year Rob. We'll definately have to take the Phazers out next year.blueironranger said:
that's what get for thinking you are superman on the demo ride weekend riding with the rockmister.
UP bushman
VIP Member
Reduction gear removal update on begining of thread.
UP bushman
VIP Member
Final dealer and Corporate Yamaha report at beginning of thread.
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