09 handwarmer resistance

[apltx08]

Hi rockmeister,

WOW...I'm willing to give it a try but this is !@#$% to me, can you show me/us where to wire this 1000 MFD in Parallel with the warmers, I am very MECHANICALY inclined but this! even just a quick PIC I'd really appriciate...

 

[PS2003]

honestly I think there may be some merit in this. When i leave from a food stop or? I start my sled up after sitting there in the cold for possibly an hour or better and everything on it is COLD. I let it warm up for maybe 3-5 minutes at idle and then of coarse have to usually go slow on the trail (in residential, town) for a little while and still no heat on the warmers so maybe I now have been out in the cold for 10-15 minutes my hands are already beginning to loose warmth from what they were when I came out of the last stop. Ok now blast down the trail to get warmers going but now I am going 50+ in -10 degree weather with a windhield that is there for cosmetics not function and cold bars and grips that need to get heat in them so what now another 5-10 minutes.....grant it having frost bit my hands when I was young makes me a poor example but this is exactly what was happening to me....by time the grips would get heat in them it was to late and I was warming my hands on the exaust at a stop but then the grips were cooling off so you can see the viscous cycle. If the grips would get warm on the intial warmup upon leaving the restuarant or bar, I think it would be a darn good thing for me and certainly worth a try. I did also invest in a set of electric gloves this year so fingers crossed that will help as well. I cannot tell you how many pairs of gloves I have and most of them ruined from the exhaust heat. Isnt it apparent that the stock heaters are sufficiant because I thought someone here said when these are wired to have power all the time they really get warm? It just seems that yammie is supplying the much needed current in to sparce of an interval? So by having some current going to the grips when normally there is not... how can that be anything but a plus? Could a diagram of the proposed Cap install be done and posted here I would like to try it.

 

[LJ 452]

Agree with both of you in that, if you have constant power it will help. I did this with a PWM control and it is much better. For the guys that run mile after mile at high speeds I don't think this will be enough. I do know that at moderate continuous speeds and gaunlets even my 06' stock series wired grips would burn my hands. So there is a balance between, heat loss, and preheat. Meaning if the bars are already 130*F it won't take as much to maintain a level of comfort for a few miles of WFO. Starting at near 0* and trying to gain heat at WFO (in stock form just isn't going to happen. I like the cap idea as it maintains stock controls and equipment, also simple and cheap. As you stated, just dont hook it up backwards (polarity) or you'll think someone is shooting at you.

 

[Bamboo]

You're about 15 pages late to the dance, but I can appreciate the input.

On the Nytro the 14V signal is interrupted to give something like a square wave. On HIGH and above 4500 RPM the signal is essentially constant at 14V as the time-off gaps close.

I get the idea for using the capacitor to provide "filler" voltage at lower settings and lower RPM, but with the charge and decay cycles is there actually a greater amount of energy (in Joules) expended per unit time? My guess would be that its pretty much the same if not lower, due to system loses.

Also, I think the contention is, even if you running at 8000 RPM all day there simply isn't enough output from the stock heaters to do the job. Thus, the call for lower resistance heater elements that have been discussed.

I'd like to hear your opinion on this. Thanks.

Actually the grips warm up MUCH faster at idle, so I know the amount of energy is greater, could take the time to calculate it but don't really want to. lol

You are correct above 1000MFD though, the cap will not fully charge with values above 1000 MFD.

My thinking is that the grips start out warmer from idle, being warmed much more throughout the RPM range and you don't have to wait until you are flying down the trail with cold fingers to wait for the warmers to finally kick in and try to keep up, let alone catch up when the wind chill and heat losses are at their greatest.

Actually the separate PWM box will do this also, but the cap is a much more cost effective thing to try.

Agree that lowering the resistance of the grips and raising the wattage is definitely effective.

Am just thinking this is worth a try without changing anything else.

How about a simple schematic for us non engineer types to follow?

 

[Rockmeister]

Will find a way to post a schematic.

 

[Rockmeister]

Hi rockmeister,

WOW...I'm willing to give it a try but this is !@#$% to me, can you show me/us where to wire this 1000 MFD in Parallel with the warmers, I am very MECHANICALY inclined but this! even just a quick PIC I'd really appriciate...

It's cool, not a problem.
Only thing is, I don't have an Apex or Attak available to me to get wire colors from, etc, or for a pic.
Wired this to my Warrior and I know the connectors are different, so the wire colors probably are also.

It is pretty easy to find them though, take the cover off your riser and follow the wires from your grips, they will goto a connector.
The Cap can be wired in anywhere between the two wires that goto your grips, on either side of the connector.
HOWEVER, the Cap MUST be wired Positive(+) to positive , and Negative(-) to negative on the cap.
As LJ mentioned, the cap is polarized and will most likely explode if you wire it in backwards. It is unlikely to hurt you, but could injure an eye and will definitely scare the bajeebas out of ya! lol
It also could take a while to explode, that will REALLY scare ya! laffin
If the cap starts getting warm, you have it wired in backwards.
Just make sure you have it correct and you will be ok.
The cap will usually have just the Negative(-) terminal or end marked.
The end with the rubber insert is usually positive.

To find the warmer ground wire on your sled, measure from each warmer power wire(coming from the ECU) to the metal chassis with an ohmmeter.
Do this with the sled off.
The lead that reads Zero (0) Ohms is the ground lead.
The ground lead is what you wire the cap negative(-) to.

The hot lead is likely to read 3-4 ohms to the chassis.

Make sure you insulate the wires well, if it shorts, the fuse to your ECU will blow leaving you stranded.
Yes, I know this from testing... lol

Zip-tie the cap and wiring to something, the cap leads can't take much flexing before they break.

Hope this helps!

 

[arteeex]

On the Nytro the grip heater wires are:

Red/Yellow = Positive (+14V)
Black = Negative/Ground (0V)

The connectors are under the "hood" - the piece that carries the windshield - in boots on both sides of the headlight assembly.

The easiest thing to do is add a capacitor to both sides before the grips.

Somewhere deep in the front end the wires bifurcated to give two separate lines for the right and left grips. If you can find where the lines split you could install just one capacitor as shown in the schematic. Or, you can recombine the like-color lines from the left and right connectors, put the capacitor in place, and then split them off again to the right and left grips.

Piece-a-cake, but have a fire extinguisher handy.

Note: the connector for the left grip in on the right side of the headlight assembly...right grip, left side.

 

[Rockmeister]

On the Nytro the grip heater wires are:

Red/Yellow = Positive (+14V)
Black = Negative/Ground (0V)

The connectors are under the "hood" - the piece that carries the windshield - in boots on both sides of the headlight assembly.

The easiest thing to do is add a capacitor to both sides before the grips.

Somewhere deep in the front end the wires bifurcated to give two separate lines for the right and left grips. If you can find where the lines split you could install just one capacitor as shown in the schematic. Or, you can recombine the like-color lines from the left and right connectors, put the capacitor in place, and then split them off again to the right and left grips.

Piece-a-cake, but have a fire extinguisher handy.

Note: the connector for the left grip in on the right side of the headlight assembly...right grip, left side.

Thanks for the info!

You still only need one cap, the grips are wired in parallel.
If you do decide to split the caps(easier to wire) you want to put a 500MFD 35V (470 MFD is a standard value) cap on each grip.

Radio Shack doesn't carry this in a 50V version, but they do have it in a 35V version.
470 MFD 35V Cap (2 Required) Radio Shack Part# 272-1030 $1.29 each

Fire Extinguisher? Hmmmmmm...
Maybe you should have a friend with wiring experience to help! lol

 

[arteeex]

I have lots of wiring experience. It's when power is applied that things tend to get interesting. It must be the low quality electricity we get up here.

On the capacitor deal, are you saying ONE capacitor between the connector and grip on ONE SIDE will do the job? Magic.

I'll wait for the proof, but I still don't buy into this idea. I get the concept, but my experience makes me think, even with the power full on, 20 - 22W per grip (stock) isn't enough to keep my digits happy at anything below 15F. Plus, have you seen how good my new grips look? The babes will go wild when they see what I got in my hand(s).

 

[Rockmeister]

I have lots of wiring experience. It's when power is applied that things tend to get interesting. It must be the low quality electricity we get up here.

On the capacitor deal, are you saying ONE capacitor between the connector and grip on ONE SIDE will do the job? Magic.

I'll wait for the proof, but I still don't buy into this idea. I get the concept, but my experience makes me think, even with the power full on, 20 - 22W per grip (stock) isn't enough to keep my digits happy at anything below 15F. Plus, have you seen how good my new grips look? The babes will go wild when they see what I got in my hand(s).

Hhahahhaha!
Love the babes thing...
And power applied with the low quality electrons...
lol

Yes one 1000MFD on one side will do it because the grips are wired in parallel (Directly to each other under the hood).
It may be SLIGHTLY more efficient to use two separate 470MFD on each grip. It is up to you.

Besides, if you already changed your grips don't worry about it, or add the caps to help heat at low speeds.

The key here is for average trail riding it is most likely going to be very helpful to start out with warm hands, rather than trying to play "catch-up".
We all know how hard it is to warm up your hands once they are cold.

In wide open all day conditions, this is likely to do nothing for you.
In on/off throttle conditions through the woods, this is likely to be very helpful to you.
Every single time you let off your throttle, the factory system turns the heat WAY down to your warmers.

PS2003 said it best, by the time the stock system starts putting out heat, your hands are Cooooold.

Not trying to say everyone needs to do this, or that it will work for everyone, just wanted to give the information out with some real info.

It's a very cheap thing to try, if it doesn't work for ya, you lost less than $5.
Bet you have spent far more $ buying things that never worked. lol

 

[apltx08]

rockmeister, I called my local Radio Shack here in Canada called "The Source" and only have the 1000MFD available for $3.99 the 470MFD is discontinued, so I'll p/u the 1000MFD and a good buddy of mine which is good in ELECTRONICS will install for me and I'll keep you posted on how things go...

 

[Rockmeister]

Cool!
I'm surprised the 470MFD was discontinued, looked up the part number on Radio Shacks site this morning... lol

Let us know how it goes!

 

[arteeex]

For anybody that can stand to see anything else about this topic, below are some pics. They show how I installed the resistors (a 1W resistor for each grip) and two showing IR images of the grips at idle and after 30-secs above 4500 RPM. With the setting on high, temps at idle were in the 75F range and rose to 110F at higher RPM. I did not run the test long enough to reach a steady-state condition with the heaters, but the indications are good for warmer paws.

The resistors combined eat about 24W, which isn’t good. But they do help keep the current draw to a reasonable level (~5.6A over 4500 RPM). If the capacitor idea works this wattage loss could be recovered. Keep me posted on how the capacitor performs.

 

[Bamboo]

I'm no EE but would a heating element work? Like one that would fit inside the handle bar.(like a kettle if that makes any sense) For eg. Leave the factory ones alone. And add to the 12V power supply a totally separate element/s. Any one have any insight on elements that could fit inside the handle bar to help radiate heat to the grips, this would be added heat to the factory ones. I know they make a hole bunch of stuff that can plug into you 12V power outlet in your car? Just a thought. I'm not a big fan of cutting wires before my warranty runs out or putting added stress on the factory ECM.

 

[Lightning Rod]

I know there has been alot of great ideas and solutions for the handwarmers, but does anyone have a diagram of the wiring from the comp to the handwarmers? Wanna try something...

Thanks