0W-30 to 5W-40 ??

[KnappAttack]

I'm not going to say what I would like to say to you LazyBastard. I'm biting my tongue this time.

 

[**sj**]

I'm not a racer...but one thing i do know...all things being equal...you never want to throw away any free horsepower!

it's a sum of the parts gentlemen...5 or 6 with oil...2-3 plugs....5 exhaust.. another 5 in clutching efficiency ....etc...etc..

before you know it your rockin'

 

[LazyBastard]

I'm not going to say what I would like to say to you LazyBastard. I'm biting my tongue this time.

Look, I can appreciate that for you, being involved in racing, that it can make the difference. But for someone who rides trails, or off in the bush, it is very little. When it really comes down to it, for most uses, these things are significantly overpowered as it is. Take a machine thats 2/3 the power, they can run about 90% the top speed, so add a few, lose a few and you're not far off. Yes, you can get up to speed faster, does it matter? That depends. Most of the time, it does NOT.

Now might be a good time to jump into the reasons for buying a particular sled. Not everybody buys it so it can be the fastest out there. Not everybody cares. I personally bought mine for the *quality* of the engine, and not the power. At the time, it was the ONLY 4-stroke available that had an engine better than a weed-wacker. If I were to buy another now, I would NOT be inclined to buy the biggest one. Phazer would do nicely. The author of this thread is asking in regards to a Phazer. Its unlikely that he's interested in setting speed records.

 

[**sj**]

I'm not going to say what I would like to say to you LazyBastard. I'm biting my tongue this time.

Look, I can appreciate that for you, being involved in racing, that it can make the difference. But for someone who rides trails, or off in the bush, it is very little. When it really comes down to it, for most uses, these things are significantly overpowered as it is. Take a machine thats 2/3 the power, they can run about 90% the top speed, so add a few, lose a few and you're not far off. Yes, you can get up to speed faster, does it matter? That depends. Most of the time, it does NOT.

Now might be a good time to jump into the reasons for buying a particular sled. Not everybody buys it so it can be the fastest out there. Not everybody cares. I personally bought mine for the *quality* of the engine, and not the power. At the time, it was the ONLY 4-stroke available that had an engine better than a weed-wacker. If I were to buy another now, I would NOT be inclined to buy the biggest one. Phazer would do nicely. The author of this thread is asking in regards to a Phazer. Its unlikely that he's interested in setting speed records.

if he owns the phazer long enough...he might need that extra 5% more than us 150fi would...

but I see your point L.B.>

many on us are all about the holy grail of extra power/performance...different motivations for different riders/machines..

 

[KING OF THE LAKE]

Stick with the ending viscosity half which is 30 or go the other way - down to 20 in full synthetic once the engine is broken in good. I feel you could go to a 5-20 or 5-30 full synthetic over the 0-30 semi synthetic because of the flow rate and lubricating qualities of the full synthetic being better. Going to a 40 ending weight oil isnt a good thing - may cause premature engine wear during warmup period because of the viscosity flow rate being higher. Do your research from the industry before you choose otherwise you may be paying for more than the oil you put in your engine. You can bet Yamaha did alot of testing on oils when they developed these motors and came up with using the 30 weight viscosity for a reason.

 

[sleddheadd]

here is the breakdown on oil.
the society of automotive engineers(SAE) have established 12 different viscosity grades. vicosity grades will determine the oils dynamic viscosity and kinematic viscosity.
the dynamic viscosity is the first # you see usually followed by a W , which , yes , you can associate that # with winter to help you think of how it performs in cold weather.the SAE has determined 6 grades of "winter" formulas beginning with 0W and working up to 25W in 5 point incriments. what they are measureing with this is the lubricants ability to pump 60,000centipointe units with no yield stress at certain temps. for ex.
0W = 60,000 cP @-40*C
5W = 60,000 cP @-35*C
10W = 60,000 cP @ -30*C and so on till 25Wwhich is 60,000 cP@-15
basically the smaller the # the better protection for colder temps.

the next # measures the lubricants ability to pour or its kinemetric viscosity, which is measured by the time it takes an oil to pour out of a container. the temp. is always consistant at 100*C (212*F)
this is #ered from 20 -60 in 10 pt incriments and is measured using sabolt universal second(sus) for ex.
sae20@100*c will empty in min.5.6sus and a max. of9.3sus
30 = 9.3sus - 12.5sus
40 = 12.5sus- 16.3sus
60 = 21.9sus - 26.1sus
in other words the oil will empty out of the container just by pouring in 5.6 seconds (roughly) to 9.3 seconds
remember you do not want your oil viscosity to thin in hot temps. because you will lose you ability to lubricate and protect your engine.

a good ex is this. a truck driver leaves florida with a load of oranges heading for minnesota, in fla. he runs SAE 30 oil because of the ambient temp. in fla. when he (or she) get to min. the driver finds the SAE 30 is to viscious or thick to handle the sub zero temps and is having a hard time starting the vehicle. after changing oil to an SAE 15W the starting problem is solved and he can continue on. when he gets back to fla. he finds the SAE 15W is to thin due to the high temps. in fla. therefore the lubricant can not protect the engine like it should.
thus they have made multi viscosity oils. the point is not that a certain oil is thicker or thinner because under different circumstances they will all flow the same it just depends on the temp. of the product.
hnow many times have we been in the north woods and the temp. has been -30* one day and 30* the next? i've seen it! make sure you choose an oil that is best for your climate and has a broad viscosity range to cover those sudden changes in weather!
basically the ultimate protection for any motor would be a 0W-60 but the viscosity range of that oil is nearly impossible to achieve

 

[sleddheadd]

if your engine operating temp. is around 200*f wouldn't you want a thicker oil to protect a little better? the motor will spin faster and produce more horse power in a racing environmentwith a thinner oil but if you are constantly running in a trail situation, wouldn't you prefer an oil that can withstand the constant temp.?
everyone has there own opinions and that is the great thing about being part of this world! gather as much info. as you can and make your own decision accordingly!
merry christmas to all!

 

[Isthatahemi]

Why not just run the recommended viscosity? 0W40 is for the other manufacturers 4 strokes anyhow...

 

[**sj**]

for example ...my mazda calls for 20 weight...if I was to run 30 or 40 weight..mileage would go down...and since the tolerance allow for 20 weight...the 30 or 40 would afford no additional protection..

higher/more isnt always better...actually...20 weight (synthetic)has been run by many very successfully..
do a google search for bearing tests on motor oil...you will be surprised that often what is thought to be good does very poorly...

 

[Vmax540]

Who makes the Walmart brand SuperTech ? They have a 5w-30 full Synethic that I run in my cars and truck with very good results. Heck, it's $12.00 and change for a gallon which is less than half the cost of Mobil 1 Why pay for the name especially, when you're comparing full synethics ?

 

[**sj**]

actually it's been posted here that wally brand oil is either made by kendall or mobil one...and is decent..
but you guys should do a search...in fact I posted a link on another thread about this...showing the results of various oils....the one that disappointed me and blew me away was mobil one...

after looking at that test...I knew it was royal purple for me..

 

[200smk]

Thanks for all the replies fellas.....didn't want to create any arguements that's for sure. (I know on this site its never an arguement long )

I do understand how the weight of oil can affect the ease of operation, especially when it comes to racing. My concerns are for an 80hp Phazer in which I purchased for the reliability and torque, which fit my trail riding style perfectly. My preferred riding style is whipping through the tight twisty trails at a good (and safe) speed. I feel that this Phazer with its great low and mid torque, lightweight handling, and flickability, will be the perfect sled for my style. I don't want to do 110mph across a lake....I want to go 60mph through the trees.

I have done a fair bit of research on the weight of oils and I guess what led to this question was the fact that in most higher performance motors, a 30 weight oil will breakdown to a 20 weight rather quickly (of course depending on many things: hp, load, rpm, etc). So I started thinking that if it doesn't "hurt" an engine to run a slightly higher weight (at operating temp) oil......why couldn't someone run a 40 knowing that after a short time it would be similar to a 30? So I asked if anyone has.....

I also believe that the flow characteristics of synthetics would make this even more applicable.

Just my thoughts......Thanks for everyone opinions!

 

[KnappAttack]

Guys, what ever oil you chose to run is fine in my eyes. I run the cheapest stuff I can find at Wal-Mart for break in up to 1500-2000 miles, after that I'll run Mobil One, but all at 5-30 for the maximum viscosity. I just want to say, you don't want to increase the viscosity to over 30 wt for the top number unless you like to ride around with a brake dragging on the engine, because that is what you are giving away in performance, weather it be a fuel mileage decrease or horsepower decrease. Even when we put on turbos and stretch these things over 300 HP, they don't get more than 30 wt. oil. Don't think that changing to 40 wt is going to help the engine in any way. because it won't. It will only sap away performance that is very noticeable, weather it is a half a MPG or 4-5 HP on a stock engine, it is performance that is being wasted forcing thicker oil through the engine, even when the engine is warm. Be sure it's no more than 5-30 on the oil that goes in if this is important to you. If it's not important then by all means go ahead and ride around with the brakes on, and use 40 wt in yours.

 

[**sj**]

Guys, what ever oil you chose to run is fine in my eyes. I run the cheapest stuff I can find at Wal-Mart for break in up to 1500-2000 miles, after that I'll run Mobil One, but all at 5-30 for the maximum viscosity. I just want to say, you don't want to increase the viscosity to over 30 wt for the top number unless you like to ride around with a brake dragging on the engine, because that is what you are giving away in performance, weather it be a fuel mileage decrease or horsepower decrease. Even when we put on turbos and stretch these things over 300 HP, they don't get more than 30 wt. oil. Don't think that changing to 40 wt is going to help the engine in any way. because it won't. It will only sap away performance that is very noticeable, weather it is a half a MPG or 4-5 HP on a stock engine, it is performance that is being wasted forcing thicker oil through the engine, even when the engine is warm. Be sure it's no more than 5-30 on the oil that goes in if this is important to you. If it's not important then by all means go ahead and ride around with the brakes on, and use 40 wt in yours.

What he says is the gospel...period...and it makes an even bigger difference on your small motor...you would feel the drag difference for sure ever 10 points of grade....

trust me...run that motor hard on dino oil like mike says...then switch to a high quality synthetic (the phazer doesnt have a wet starter clutch right?)..
in the 20 weight....a little tweak here and there...and your running that 60 nicely through the trees...without loss of durability...

 

[200smk]

Thanks Guys......I hear ya!

5w-30 it is.....after break-in! (no wet clutch)