hondo said:snoway said:hondo said:120 HP class motor.
Nytro is a 130 HP class motor.
come on hondo. give us something beyond the yamaha brochure yada yada..
This is a ? that is on the mind of many people interested in the vector and its new mill.
the 973 was a 120 "class" sled, . The 1049 in the nytro is a 136 to 138 hp sled that is being called a 130 "class" sled.
Yet the 1049 vector is still being called a 120 HP. sled.
give us a break....we didn't ALLL vote for our current admin.
man up.
Well Snoway,
Sounds like you need to start reading the brochures, starting with the 2009 RS Venture GT. The information is pretty obvious regarding the 1049 base motor information. There are other sources such as Maxsled.com, Snow Tech, and Amsnow, have all provided written information.
Chris Reid, on the Yamaha Canada Sled talk site has a video of the new 2010 Vector running against an Apex.
You can also go online to the Yamaha Motors Snowmobile site (2010 Snowmobiles, RS Vector) and glean more information.
A 120 HP "Class" motor is a motor that has from 120.0000 HP - 129.9999 HP. Thus the term "120 HP Class Motor".
A 126 - 128 hp motor is still a 120 hp class motor. Got it??? How's that for being spoon fed?
From what I can personnally deduct is that the manaufacturer can tailor a motor for a certain snowmobile application within a couple of HP and still remain within a particular HP Class.
Talking about "manning up", here are a set of both facts and assumptions to consider;
The 1049 base Nytro motor has been detuned by changing the cams to bring down HP to 126 - 128 HP. Why do you ask??? For a broader low end torque band and also to reduced harmonic vibration. Now go back and re-read some of the previous posts regarding those that have had a chance to demo ride the 2010 Vector LTX GT.
Low vibration, reduced vibration: Couple that with extrovert drivers and a fully clipped track Blue #6 of the 2010 Brochure, "With every-window open pattern" will do several things; Reduce vibration, and reduce slide wear. A looser track will also hook up better in loose snow and powder conditions. On the sled there will be; Blue #1 of the 2010 Brochure, "A new forward facing track tensioner".
From what I have read, the 2010 Vector motor has cams that are slightly are different than whats in the RS Venture GT. Thus,Red #2 of the 2010 Brochure, "New trail-tuned Genesis 120 FI 4-stroke engine". The motors HP output will probably be closer to 128 HP. Make the clutch more suitable for trail riding "trail tuned" than the touring version of the RS Venture clutch, and the end result should be an extremely capable trail sled. Yamaha is also doing it's own home work with the goal of producing better and more refined products.
In optimum snow conditions if I'm getting between 18-20 mpg with a 2009 RS Venture GT, I'm assuming the 2010 RS Vector LTX GT (once the motor is broke in) should be able to get 20 MPG or better, based on ones riding style.
If I continue I bet I could qualify for a Pell Grant.
Let me know when you are ready for your own homework assignment!
Cheers!
129.9999HP puts a sled in the "120 HP". class? ....OK! never thought of it like that, but OK. A wide range to say the least!
The dyno sheets I've seen on the 973 are in the 118 to 119 HP range so the 2009 and earlier vectors are a true 110 HP class sled.
Yamaha came up with HP "classing" of sleds with there intro of 4 strokes,(at least that was the first reference I personnally heard of it)
so I suppose they can tell the story any way they want to.
Do we call the apex a 140 HP "class" sled? OR ,...if the apex dynoed @ 150.00001 would it be a 150 "class" sled?
Whos dyno report counts?
I will agree with the claims of less vibration, there was a noticable diff. on the 2010 Vector test ride . I didn't feel the same vibration in the footwells as on my 08.
My guess is you will probably break your own 60 day record once you get on a 2010 vector LTX
snoway said:hondo said:snoway said:hondo said:120 HP class motor.
Nytro is a 130 HP class motor.
come on hondo. give us something beyond the yamaha brochure yada yada..
This is a ? that is on the mind of many people interested in the vector and its new mill.
the 973 was a 120 "class" sled, . The 1049 in the nytro is a 136 to 138 hp sled that is being called a 130 "class" sled.
Yet the 1049 vector is still being called a 120 HP. sled.
give us a break....we didn't ALLL vote for our current admin.
man up.
Well Snoway,
Sounds like you need to start reading the brochures, starting with the 2009 RS Venture GT. The information is pretty obvious regarding the 1049 base motor information. There are other sources such as Maxsled.com, Snow Tech, and Amsnow, have all provided written information.
Chris Reid, on the Yamaha Canada Sled talk site has a video of the new 2010 Vector running against an Apex.
You can also go online to the Yamaha Motors Snowmobile site (2010 Snowmobiles, RS Vector) and glean more information.
A 120 HP "Class" motor is a motor that has from 120.0000 HP - 129.9999 HP. Thus the term "120 HP Class Motor".
A 126 - 128 hp motor is still a 120 hp class motor. Got it??? How's that for being spoon fed?
From what I can personnally deduct is that the manaufacturer can tailor a motor for a certain snowmobile application within a couple of HP and still remain within a particular HP Class.
Talking about "manning up", here are a set of both facts and assumptions to consider;
The 1049 base Nytro motor has been detuned by changing the cams to bring down HP to 126 - 128 HP. Why do you ask??? For a broader low end torque band and also to reduced harmonic vibration. Now go back and re-read some of the previous posts regarding those that have had a chance to demo ride the 2010 Vector LTX GT.
Low vibration, reduced vibration: Couple that with extrovert drivers and a fully clipped track Blue #6 of the 2010 Brochure, "With every-window open pattern" will do several things; Reduce vibration, and reduce slide wear. A looser track will also hook up better in loose snow and powder conditions. On the sled there will be; Blue #1 of the 2010 Brochure, "A new forward facing track tensioner".
From what I have read, the 2010 Vector motor has cams that are slightly are different than whats in the RS Venture GT. Thus,Red #2 of the 2010 Brochure, "New trail-tuned Genesis 120 FI 4-stroke engine". The motors HP output will probably be closer to 128 HP. Make the clutch more suitable for trail riding "trail tuned" than the touring version of the RS Venture clutch, and the end result should be an extremely capable trail sled. Yamaha is also doing it's own home work with the goal of producing better and more refined products.
In optimum snow conditions if I'm getting between 18-20 mpg with a 2009 RS Venture GT, I'm assuming the 2010 RS Vector LTX GT (once the motor is broke in) should be able to get 20 MPG or better, based on ones riding style.
If I continue I bet I could qualify for a Pell Grant.
Let me know when you are ready for your own homework assignment!
Cheers!
129.9999HP puts a sled in the "120 HP". class? ....OK! never thought of it like that, but OK. A wide range to say the least!
The dyno sheets I've seen on the 973 are in the 118 to 119 HP range so the 2009 and earlier vectors are a true 110 HP class sled.
Yamaha came up with HP "classing" of sleds with there intro of 4 strokes,(at least that was the first reference I personnally heard of it)
so I suppose they can tell the story any way they want to.
Do we call the apex a 140 HP "class" sled? OR ,...if the apex dynoed @ 150.00001 would it be a 150 "class" sled?
Whos dyno report counts?
I will agree with the claims of less vibration, there was a noticable diff. on the 2010 Vector test ride . I didn't feel the same vibration in the footwells as on my 08.
My guess is you will probably break your own 60 day record once you get on a 2010 vector LTX
I guess it's even a wider range. 118 -119 HP also means 120 HP class.
Within a couple of HP plus or minus. I'm sure you understand the concept.
The pre-production sleds I rode did not have extrovert drivers, external track adjuster, nor a fully clipped track. Very rarely you will see all the features on a pre-production sled.
Riding an average of 202.71 miles a day for 60 days straight while keeping up with all the administrative requirements for Guinness is an extremely formidable challenge.
The Guinness World Record is there for all those that would like to attempt to break it.
I have been down graded to an be "Average Joe with too much time on my hands", riding in the "Liesure Category" ! LOL...
correct me if i'm wrong but didn't American Snowmobiler magazine dyno the 08-09 Vector motor close to 121-123 horse power. so not sure where he got the 118-119 # maybe those were the first year units that came out. Yamaha has been improving these every year and i'm seriously considering a 2010 vector next winter. 
snogoer, on a dyno port dyno, last year or the year before.
Just sayin, its yammies story, they can tell it like they want to.
120 class sled has about a 12 HP window, so in base 10 there will be some overlap, I guess, or so I've been "spoon fed"
still legal, here's one 
for you
Just sayin, its yammies story, they can tell it like they want to.
120 class sled has about a 12 HP window, so in base 10 there will be some overlap, I guess, or so I've been "spoon fed"
still legal, here's one for you
DiscoRR
Newbie
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2007
- Messages
- 24
snoway said:snogoer, on a dyno port dyno, last year or the year before.
Just sayin, its yammies story, they can tell it like they want to.
120 class sled has about a 12 HP window, so in base 10 there will be some overlap, I guess, or so I've been "spoon fed"
Should Yamaha "over-promise and under-deliver"... or exceed expectations?
Hopefully the new little Vector delivers and exceeds!
Concur DiscoRR,
My bet, the new Vector LTX GT will exceed many expectations!
I want to see this sled turn heads and raise some eye brows!!!
My bet, the new Vector LTX GT will exceed many expectations!
I want to see this sled turn heads and raise some eye brows!!!
Groomerdriver
TY 4 Stroke Master
IMO - you're going to "feel" the difference in the 2010 mostly in the fully clipped track and the extrovert drivers. The FI will make a difference....how much remains to be seen as the consumer has not driven a production grade sled.
120hp and now 126 hp? -- c'mon guys get real. In your ordinary everyday trail ride, you're not going to be able to tell you have 6 more ponies.
120hp and now 126 hp? -- c'mon guys get real. In your ordinary everyday trail ride, you're not going to be able to tell you have 6 more ponies.
Groomerdriver
TY 4 Stroke Master
hondo said:Concur DiscoRR,
I want to see this sled turn heads and raise some eye brows!!!
I want the short track version to do it too.....but am afraid that the price tag is going to scare too many people away initially. I don't see $2500+ of "a better sled" in an 09 (for $7000) and a '10 for $9500.
I hope to see the shortie on dealer floors selling for $7600 in Feb 2010. That will be the time to buy!
This is the post that started this thread.superb said:
My point is only this...The vector now has the "130CLASS" (1049cc, 138 HP)sled engine in it, but Yammie chose to screw it down to 126 HP and keep it in the ,...ahem, "120CLASS".
Who doesn't want an extra 10 to 12 HP in there new $10,000 Vector when it can be done for the same or possibly lower cost, ie; leaving the Nytro motor as is and stuff it in the vector,...no extra R&D cost what so ever.
HP is HP and every additional ponie normally cost about a hundo each so to speak, so free sounds even better ...give me the choice of the 138 /1049 or the 126/1049 and its pretty simple ain't it....lets hear the Yammie spin.LOL
Here you go!!!
:rules
It's simple if you know your riding preference. We all have different have riding styles, sled needs and specification requirements, ergo different models.
The Nytro motor may not be the end all "silver bullet" for everyone. Bigger is not always better.
Compare and contrast is a good thing. Everyone needs to be happy with their sled choice as compared to their own specific sled application.
If the Nytro meets all your requirements, specifications and sled applications, then the Nytro is probably the sled for you.
The new Vector should be a favorite for the ultimate "trail" rider. Here's why:
From the Yamaha Canada Site:
"The RS Vector has been about the most reliable snowmobile ever built, not to mention one of the best handling sleds on the snow! For 2010 our goal was to improve the RS Vector every single aspect.
To start there is a new version of the Genesis 120 FI (Fuel Injected) engine... a 3 Cylinder, 1050cc, 4-Stroke based on the Nytro. However… like the Venture GT, this engine is tuned specifically for trail riding, so it's super smooth with a lot of low-rpm torque. It has more power and torque throughout the entire power curve. Power delivery and clutch engagement are so smooth, this engine feels almost electric.
Of course with fuel injection, cold starting is a breeze. You just turn the key. There's no choke to worry about. And this engine actually gets about 5% better fuel economy than the carbureted Vector! (This is a very important consideration since the fuel tank is 1 gallon less)
It also has Yamaha's exclusive E.B.R.S., or Engine Braking Reduction System. This system allows a small amount of air to pass through the fuel injection system when you let off the throttle, allowing the sled to coast a little. You still get the advantage of some engine braking, but on/off throttle transitions are much smoother making the sled even easier to ride.
There is an updated new Monoshock II rear skid frame. The Monoshock RA is already known to be one of the most comfortable and easy to adjust rear suspensions in the industry. Most of the changes are geared towards improving convenience, reliability and durability. There's a stronger rear axle shaft, needle bearings on front arm pivot at the rail and the idler wheels are from the Venture GT so you can replace the bearings.
Up front you'll find the Aluminum piggy-back HPG GYTR shocks with both compression and rebound damping adjustments.
The digital gauge has been updated to include a clock, dual trips, low fuel trip indicators, and even an oil change reminder system. And we've added the auxillary RCA CD outlet to plug a heated visor in to. There are even new "hotter" grip warmers with a new insulator.
Combine all of these new features with what is arguably our best handling sled, and you've truly got the complete package. Ideal for short quick trips or all-day trail riding.
While the new RS Vector might not run down an Apex on the lake, there isn't much else the Apex can do better!"
Click on the video links.
http://yamaha-motor.ca/products/video.p ... e_dragrace
http://yamaha-motor.ca/products/video.p ... stimonials
"There is so much more to this sled".
2010 Vector next to a 1975 GPX 433. Nytro in the back ground. Photo taken in St Agatha, Maine.
The new Vector motor is much smoother than the Nytro due to changed harmonic vibration frequency for the application (special purpose built), making the entire sled extremely smooth. Coupled with outstanding fuel economy, this is what all-day trail riders are looking for. For those riders, it should be a pretty simple choice.
This was one reason I choose the Genesis 120 engine in 2005 because it was a special purpose built motor put in a touring chassis.
The rest is history!
Yamaha continues to do a great job refining its product line to meet the needs of their customers. For 2009, Yamaha's goal was to improve every single aspect of the RS Venture.
2009 RS Venture GT
The new 2010 Vector is another example of continued refinement meeting and hopefully exceeding consumer expectations. Only time will tell.
Hope this helps!
I'm applying for a home school Pell Grant.
:rules
It's simple if you know your riding preference. We all have different have riding styles, sled needs and specification requirements, ergo different models.
The Nytro motor may not be the end all "silver bullet" for everyone. Bigger is not always better.
Compare and contrast is a good thing. Everyone needs to be happy with their sled choice as compared to their own specific sled application.
If the Nytro meets all your requirements, specifications and sled applications, then the Nytro is probably the sled for you.
The new Vector should be a favorite for the ultimate "trail" rider. Here's why:
From the Yamaha Canada Site:
"The RS Vector has been about the most reliable snowmobile ever built, not to mention one of the best handling sleds on the snow! For 2010 our goal was to improve the RS Vector every single aspect.
To start there is a new version of the Genesis 120 FI (Fuel Injected) engine... a 3 Cylinder, 1050cc, 4-Stroke based on the Nytro. However… like the Venture GT, this engine is tuned specifically for trail riding, so it's super smooth with a lot of low-rpm torque. It has more power and torque throughout the entire power curve. Power delivery and clutch engagement are so smooth, this engine feels almost electric.
Of course with fuel injection, cold starting is a breeze. You just turn the key. There's no choke to worry about. And this engine actually gets about 5% better fuel economy than the carbureted Vector! (This is a very important consideration since the fuel tank is 1 gallon less)
It also has Yamaha's exclusive E.B.R.S., or Engine Braking Reduction System. This system allows a small amount of air to pass through the fuel injection system when you let off the throttle, allowing the sled to coast a little. You still get the advantage of some engine braking, but on/off throttle transitions are much smoother making the sled even easier to ride.
There is an updated new Monoshock II rear skid frame. The Monoshock RA is already known to be one of the most comfortable and easy to adjust rear suspensions in the industry. Most of the changes are geared towards improving convenience, reliability and durability. There's a stronger rear axle shaft, needle bearings on front arm pivot at the rail and the idler wheels are from the Venture GT so you can replace the bearings.
Up front you'll find the Aluminum piggy-back HPG GYTR shocks with both compression and rebound damping adjustments.
The digital gauge has been updated to include a clock, dual trips, low fuel trip indicators, and even an oil change reminder system. And we've added the auxillary RCA CD outlet to plug a heated visor in to. There are even new "hotter" grip warmers with a new insulator.
Combine all of these new features with what is arguably our best handling sled, and you've truly got the complete package. Ideal for short quick trips or all-day trail riding.
While the new RS Vector might not run down an Apex on the lake, there isn't much else the Apex can do better!"
Click on the video links.
http://yamaha-motor.ca/products/video.p ... e_dragrace
http://yamaha-motor.ca/products/video.p ... stimonials
"There is so much more to this sled".
2010 Vector next to a 1975 GPX 433. Nytro in the back ground. Photo taken in St Agatha, Maine.
The new Vector motor is much smoother than the Nytro due to changed harmonic vibration frequency for the application (special purpose built), making the entire sled extremely smooth. Coupled with outstanding fuel economy, this is what all-day trail riders are looking for. For those riders, it should be a pretty simple choice.
This was one reason I choose the Genesis 120 engine in 2005 because it was a special purpose built motor put in a touring chassis.
The rest is history!
Yamaha continues to do a great job refining its product line to meet the needs of their customers. For 2009, Yamaha's goal was to improve every single aspect of the RS Venture.
2009 RS Venture GT
The new 2010 Vector is another example of continued refinement meeting and hopefully exceeding consumer expectations. Only time will tell.
Hope this helps!
I'm applying for a home school Pell Grant.
WHOA!,...the whole room is spinnin, now!
Is the Yamessiah gonna give us ALL curve skis this year if we chant in Yamaharmony?
Nice brochure.
Is the Yamessiah gonna give us ALL curve skis this year if we chant in Yamaharmony?
Nice brochure.
"Holy Cynacism Batman",
What do Curve skis have to do with the thread topic of the 2010 Vector HP Class?
What do Curve skis have to do with the thread topic of the 2010 Vector HP Class?
Do you think that the present version of the 1049cc 130 class nytro engine would not be a great fit in the vector chassis?
I think the 1049 was detuned just so it wouldn't eclipse the Nytro and /or apex in all around performance.
While the apex might remain the top speed champ and the nytro the big bump /jump champ, against a 130 class HP vector, I believe you would see the vector sales outpace both the apex and nytro in 2010 3 to 1 as an all purpose best bang per buck.
As is ,I think many will remain on the fence this year due to limited changes in the lineup and a sluggish economy, and wait to see what 2011 will come out with. I beleive the 138 HP vector would have boosted sales for 2010 greatly.
I think the 1049 was detuned just so it wouldn't eclipse the Nytro and /or apex in all around performance.
While the apex might remain the top speed champ and the nytro the big bump /jump champ, against a 130 class HP vector, I believe you would see the vector sales outpace both the apex and nytro in 2010 3 to 1 as an all purpose best bang per buck.
As is ,I think many will remain on the fence this year due to limited changes in the lineup and a sluggish economy, and wait to see what 2011 will come out with. I beleive the 138 HP vector would have boosted sales for 2010 greatly.
snoway said:
We had two demo events in Northern Maine and I personnally invited 4 of my fence sitter buddies to the demo. They ride poo, cats and doos. Hands down 4-0 they were impressed with the 2010 Vector LTX GT because of its smoothness and see the reliability advantage, but more so for the great fuel economy this sled will provide. All 4 riding buddies rode over 4,000 miles this year. They were not happy getting 15 mpg or less at each fill up and see me getting 18 - 20 mpg all day long with a bigger heavier touring sled. Needless to say the 2010 Vector demo made a big impression, and could very easily meet their future riding requirements.
I have a buddy riding an Apex, his girl friend is riding a Nytro XTX. The first thing he did was install a bigger aftermarket fuel tank so she could hit our extended range fuel stops, Curve skis for better trail handling, and a CSS light on the Nytro to keep pace with us.
Would my buddy's girl friend be better off with a Vector? Don't really know. She likes her Nytro. Fitted with the bigger aftermarket fuel tank she can easily make our fuel windows. It is what it is.
I can't wait to smoke her on the lake with my new 2010 Vector LTX GT.
Truth be told, Not!!! , she has a pretty stout clutch kit in her sled. She has never lost in her class in 600 feet on the Canadian drag race circuit. She says it's stock!
LOL... Right!!! I don't plan on putting a clutch kit on my new Vector just to beat her in a lake race either.
It is what it is!
Groomerdriver
TY 4 Stroke Master
I didn't realize until reading all of this garbage that the FI motor is a detuned Nytro motor. I thought that it was a FI'd original Vector motor.
I don't understand why Yamaha did this? If they really wanted to make a stir, put the Nytro motor in the Vector, change the clutching/gearing to make it a trail cruiser, then sell the crap out of them!
Hondo - I am in no way shape or form dissing what you have done or said but it seems like what Yamaha does is listen too much to "the bloggers" and other Yami blue bloods in determining what they want to take to market.
Like I've said before......$2500 more for 6-7 more HP? BFD!!! Give me a little more grunt that the Nytro motor gives me and give me a choice.....ala a 600 class sled or a 700-almost 800 class sled..between a Vector and a Nytro'd Vector. Poo was hugely sucessful with this formulas for many years! Multi class sled options.
Doo and Poo have the riders (market share) that Yami wants....you need to find something that appeals to a greater cross section of that group.
I don't understand why Yamaha did this? If they really wanted to make a stir, put the Nytro motor in the Vector, change the clutching/gearing to make it a trail cruiser, then sell the crap out of them!
Hondo - I am in no way shape or form dissing what you have done or said but it seems like what Yamaha does is listen too much to "the bloggers" and other Yami blue bloods in determining what they want to take to market.
Like I've said before......$2500 more for 6-7 more HP? BFD!!! Give me a little more grunt that the Nytro motor gives me and give me a choice.....ala a 600 class sled or a 700-almost 800 class sled..between a Vector and a Nytro'd Vector. Poo was hugely sucessful with this formulas for many years! Multi class sled options.
Doo and Poo have the riders (market share) that Yami wants....you need to find something that appeals to a greater cross section of that group.
