2010 Vector Horsepower

[yamadoo]

Great points and pictures HONDO... I see again you are on the high road.

Yamadoo

 

[hondo]

I didn't realize until reading all of this garbage that the FI motor is a detuned Nytro motor. I thought that it was a FI'd original Vector motor.

Yes, it is a detuned Nytro base Motor because the orginal carb'ed 973 motor would not run efficiently with FI.

I don't understand why Yamaha did this? If they really wanted to make a stir, put the Nytro motor in the Vector, change the clutching/gearing to make it a trail cruiser, then sell the crap out of them!

Harmonic vibration issues need to be controlled. Remember the clutch rattle and track howl issues for example? This is due to the firing order of the motor creating harmonic vibrations within the sled chassis and track. Changing chassis to the DB II and detuning motors changes the harmonic frequencies in a sled to make it more comfortable to ride.

Hondo - I am in no way shape or form dissing what you have done or said but it seems like what Yamaha does is listen too much to "the bloggers" and other Yami blue bloods in determining what they want to take to market.

It's ok...Just trying to shed some light on some issues that may not be as obvious to others and have a discussion.

Whether you like it or not from a consumer stand point, In my opinion, Yamaha has there own and very sound marketing agenda based on numerous factors.

Like I've said before......$2500 more for 6-7 more HP? BFD!!! Give me a little more grunt that the Nytro motor gives me and give me a choice.....ala a 600 class sled or a 700-almost 800 class sled..between a Vector and a Nytro'd Vector. Poo was hugely sucessful with this formulas for many years! Multi class sled options.

I respect your opinion. But it is what it is....

Doo and Poo have the riders (market share) that Yami wants....you need to find something that appeals to a greater cross section of that group.

I respect your opinion. In my opinion the "Yamaha Advantage" has gained some credibiltiy and traction in order to bring over those that have an open mind and are not completely immersed in brand blood.

 

[hondo]

Great points and pictures HONDO... I see again you are on the high road.

Thanks Yamadoo...

Not for long. I feel like I'm in the WWF.

Hey, how about being my tag team partner? You can be "Rick Flare". I feel like "Bo Bo Brazil".

Rememeber the old "Co-Co Butt"?

O.K. There is a minute left in the match, I just tagged you, and now your in the ring for the pin!

Too delusional eh? LOL...

Yeah, I thought so too!

All the best!

Hondo sends...

Yamadoo

I'm done!

Time to move on...and "Man Down"...

I think I'll go to the North Cape of Norway and hang out with RX Rider for a week or so... "Land of the mid night sun". I always wanted to see Norway in June.

RX Rider, if you read this get your fridge stocked up with a truck load of Mack Ol...

If my wife and I start swimming now we should be able to make it by June 16th.



All have a great summer.

 

[snoway]

120 HP class motor.

Nytro is a 130 HP class motor.

come on hondo. give us something beyond the yamaha brochure yada yada..
This is a ? that is on the mind of many people interested in the vector and its new mill.
the 973 was a 120 "class" sled, . The 1049 in the nytro is a 136 to 138 hp sled that is being called a 130 "class" sled.
Yet the 1049 vector is still being called a 120 HP. sled.
give us a break....we didn't ALLL vote for our current admin.
man up.

Man up? poor choice,
Enjoy yur Schlitz!, in the "off season"

 

[hondo]

120 HP class motor.

Nytro is a 130 HP class motor.

come on hondo. give us something beyond the yamaha brochure yada yada..
This is a ? that is on the mind of many people interested in the vector and its new mill.
the 973 was a 120 "class" sled, . The 1049 in the nytro is a 136 to 138 hp sled that is being called a 130 "class" sled.
Yet the 1049 vector is still being called a 120 HP. sled.
give us a break....we didn't ALLL vote for our current admin.
man up.

Well Snoway,

Sounds like you need to start reading the brochures, starting with the 2009 RS Venture GT. The information is pretty obvious regarding the 1049 base motor information. There are other sources such as Maxsled.com, Snow Tech, and Amsnow, have all provided written information.

Chris Reid, on the Yamaha Canada Sled talk site has a video of the new 2010 Vector running against an Apex.

You can also go online to the Yamaha Motors Snowmobile site (2010 Snowmobiles, RS Vector) and glean more information.

A 120 HP "Class" motor is a motor that has from 120.0000 HP - 129.9999 HP. Thus the term "120 HP Class Motor".

A 126 - 128 hp motor is still a 120 hp class motor. Got it??? How's that for being spoon fed?

From what I can personnally deduct is that the manaufacturer can tailor a motor for a certain snowmobile application within a couple of HP and still remain within a particular HP Class.

Talking about "manning up", here are a set of both facts and assumptions to consider;

The 1049 base Nytro motor has been detuned by changing the cams to bring down HP to 126 - 128 HP. Why do you ask??? For a broader low end torque band and also to reduced harmonic vibration. Now go back and re-read some of the previous posts regarding those that have had a chance to demo ride the 2010 Vector LTX GT.

Low vibration, reduced vibration: Couple that with extrovert drivers and a fully clipped track Blue #6 of the 2010 Brochure, "With every-window open pattern" will do several things; Reduce vibration, and reduce slide wear. A looser track will also hook up better in loose snow and powder conditions. On the sled there will be; Blue #1 of the 2010 Brochure, "A new forward facing track tensioner".

From what I have read, the 2010 Vector motor has cams that are slightly are different than whats in the RS Venture GT. Thus,Red #2 of the 2010 Brochure, "New trail-tuned Genesis 120 FI 4-stroke engine". The motors HP output will probably be closer to 128 HP. Make the clutch more suitable for trail riding "trail tuned" than the touring version of the RS Venture clutch, and the end result should be an extremely capable trail sled. Yamaha is also doing it's own home work with the goal of producing better and more refined products.

In optimum snow conditions if I'm getting between 18-20 mpg with a 2009 RS Venture GT, I'm assuming the 2010 RS Vector LTX GT (once the motor is broke in) should be able to get 20 MPG or better, based on ones riding style.

If I continue I bet I could qualify for a Pell Grant.

Let me know when you are ready for your own homework assignment!

Cheers!

"Ground Hog Day"!

 

[yamadoo]

I am just here to learn not wrestle. LOL But will try to help.

I think the Vector ltx in the Delta II chasis with FI, mid 120's HP is great. I also understand why they went for the HP range they did, I like others coming from an Apex would like the Nytro motor BUT I do understand why they did not. Costs to build, stock and market every option and choice is to great. Now that idea of custom ordering I like, but comes with costs also.

Basically the Yamaha marketing dept, after studying who can afford and will likely buy new sleds, what features they-that specific group - would want (smooth, mpg, reliable, etc :adequate if not great power "Apex in Delta II "is still available) decided to build it this way. Great sled, perfect NO, fit for me 'close', fit most purchasers, time and sales figures will tell.

You might complain why didn't I get to give my opinion and or vote?

OH but you do with your purchase or NOT.

My two cents

Yamadoo

 

[Fusion]

Guys, I think you may be overstating the price difference between the '09 and 10 Vectors. Look at MSRP on an '09 Vector and I'll tell you I paid nowhere near that for mine. If I would have waited 1 month, the deal would have been maybe 7 - 8 hundred less. My guess is, you'll be able to buy a 2010 Vector GT for about 9 G's in early to mid Dec. '09. I'm very interested, but I'm waiting a bit this time. The economy is not going to improve that much in six - seven months to justify them selling these puppies for 100 off retail. Won't happen. I was truly amazed at the deals flying around in late Dec. and early Jan., now admittedly, everyone knew the FI version was on deck, but still that doesn't explain everything about pricing.

My big decision right now is between an APEX and a Vector. I'm not sure the APEX is worth the extra coin, but already having a Vector makes me want some variety, and there's no chance I'd look at a Nytro. Still, I have to say it would be about 75% I'd buy a 10 Vector vs. Apex.

 

[corvette327]

Hondo:
Thanks for your input on the 2010 vector.
I had the chance to test ride the pre production unit and placed my vote with a deposit on the LTX GT.
Since my other sled is an RS Venture I hope the production unit does not pick up any additional harmonic or resonance issues.
As you know the demo unit did not have all the upgrades and I hope they do not increase the noise and vibration.
keep setting those mileage records !

 

[hondo]

My pleasure Corvette 327,

Glad you were able to glean something out of all the bloviating. LOL...

I know the pre-production Vector didn't have the fully clipped track, extroverts, and external track adjuster.

I don't believe there should be a problem, since Yamaha has made a decision to move towards lowering vibration.

I'm seriously leaning towards a Vector LTX GT as well.

Have a great summer and all the best!

 

[snoway]

I am just here to learn not wrestle. LOL But will try to help.

I think the Vector ltx in the Delta II chasis with FI, mid 120's HP is great. I also understand why they went for the HP range they did, I like others coming from an Apex would like the Nytro motor BUT I do understand why they did not. Costs to build, stock and market every option and choice is to great. Now that idea of custom ordering I like, but comes with costs also.

Basically the Yamaha marketing dept, after studying who can afford and will likely buy new sleds, what features they-that specific group - would want (smooth, mpg, reliable, etc :adequate if not great power "Apex in Delta II "is still available) decided to build it this way. Great sled, perfect NO, fit for me 'close', fit most purchasers, time and sales figures will tell.

You might complain why didn't I get to give my opinion and or vote?

OH but you do with your purchase or NOT.

My two cents

Yamadoo

My point was that the 138 HP motor was already on the shelf and would actually have cost yammie LESS due to NOT having to R&D a DETUNED version of the 1049.
Hondo stated that it was done for a smoother engine /chassis package and more desirable torque curve.
I see an aftermarket industry that makes there coins by selling us sledders HP @ about $100. per pony.
So I don't understand why they didn't give us the full potential of this engine, for the sake of a little bit smoother sled.
The Yammie 4 strokes are already without a doubt the smoothest sleds on the snow. I ride with mostly yammie 4 stokes in our group and no one so far has said there sled needs to be smoothed out.
I ain't bitchin, just askin a few ? here . Still am and always will be a tru blu smurf.

 

[yamadoo]

snoway and guys

I wonder if Yamaha tried a few 'real NYTRO' motors in a Delta II chasis and found the performance so close to the 4 cylinder Apex that they wanted to apeal to truly to a different market with the trail tuned 1047cc motor and not compete with in its own line up.

I tend to always think the companies have thought about and tried the options and wether we like it or not they have reasons for their decisions. Again we vote with our purchases.... I am sure you are aware of this.



Yamadoo

 

[snoway]

This could be the first time a manu. has gone and reduced an engines performance/HP ...ussually the other way around.
Is there a "race class" reason behind wanting to keep the vector a 120 class sled.?
What race circuit are the vectors running in? I'm not aware of any.
Yamadoo, you might be right about the apex owners getting there feelings hurt in a short drag race or in the twisties, but the nytro mill still won't come close on top end.

 

[hondo]

"This could be the first time a manu. has gone and reduced an engines performance/HP"?

No it's not. The motor in the 2009 RS Venture GT is a detuned 1049 Nytro Motor. Plus the detuned motor has 6 more hp the the carb'ed 973.

....ussually the other way around". Give us an example.

All you need to do is buy an old RS Venture preferably a 2005, and ride it for 40,000 miles and you will learn all about harmonic resonnance.

Cruise control clutch weights.

Yamaha is making an effort to produce the best over-all trial sled on the planet. Low vibration, suberb fuel economy, easily adjustable machine for the trail, with a motor that "love you a long long time".

"Is there a "race class" reason behind wanting to keep the vector a 120 class sled."? No.

"What race circuit are the vectors running in? I'm not aware of any".

Getting colder.... It has nothing to do with racing. It has everything to do with the trail riding market.

"You might be right about the apex owners getting there feelings hurt in a short drag race or in the twisties, but the nytro mill still won't come close on top end".

No worries, feelings won't be hurt...

With all due respect, until you ride this machine for any length of time, you just won't understand the beauty of this concept!

I promise I'm really done. I just had to come off the "top rope" one last time! LOL...

Have a great summer!

Hondo out...

 

[snoway]

sorry to interupt your swim, hondo. Don't run away, it will diminish your superiority id. LOL

HONDO SEZ;
No it's not. The motor in the 2009 RS Venture GT is a detuned 1049 Nytro Motor. Plus the detuned motor has 6 more hp the the carb'ed 973.

Thats the same basic motor I am talking about ...ain't it?...Same manu. moving the HP output in the same direction...BACKWARDS.

HONDO SEZ;
....ussually the other way around". Give us an example.

Ski doo 600 vs. ski doo 600 H.O.


HONDO SEZ;
Yamaha is making an effort to produce the best over-all trial sled on the planet. Low vibration, suberb fuel economy, easily adjustable machine for the trail, with a motor that "love you a long long time".

Not disputing that fact, never will.


HONDO SEZ;
Getting colder.... It has nothing to do with racing. It has everything to do with the trail riding market.

Because the "trail riding market" might be turned off by an extra 10 to 12 FREE, FREE, FREE HP????


HONDO SEZ;
I promise I'm really done. I just had to come off the "top rope" one last time! LOL...


7.2 on the rickter scale!!!LOL...yea, i'm sure I misspelled a word or too, sorree.

Let me know when Yammie is looking for a realist to assist in the marketing critic dept. LOL
These sleds are smooth enough for most of us 4000 mile per year ametuers...Give me HP!

 

[nyattak]

Give me HP!

Looks like you'll be riding an Apex, Nytro, or a HO!