2011 Apex Ride Review

[vectorboy]

Premium TRAIL sled maybe. That will never fly on a mountain sled ! We want major weight concessions from Yamaha, not some electric pump with power steering fluid runnin through it. We need a sub 500lb high horsepower machine, not some trail machine that can be steered by a 5 year old.

 

[Super Sled]

Who wants power steering on a sled. Yamaha must really sell sleds to the flatlanders. I think they have achieved a Homer Simpson sled. Unreal. Who wants a sled that feels 100 lbs lighter. You need it at least a 100 lbs lighter when it's buried in 8 ft of snow. Let's see that EPS get you out of that hole.

They hear you regarding your flat lander comment, but keep in mind we're talking specifically about a trail sled, not anything else. Harp about wanting improvment for the mountains yes, but that's not what this ride was about or what this sled is about.

I enjoyed riding it. As I told Chris, the most significant thing I picked up from this sled was how light it handled the trails. Before anyone shoots off about what a sled has or doesn't, or should, or what's a waste of time and money to improve on, you have to isolate what the sled is intended for, think about the company at the drawing board with a pile of data in front of them pushing them to cover a certain market based on that data, what style of riding you want to cover, who's going to ride it, and why.

This sled, whatever it comes out being titled as is for the average trail rider who wants to sit down, turn the key and ride some significant miles in a day in a relaxed non-agressive manor without feeling fatigued at the end of the ride. I've put roughly 1500 km's on these Ontario trails since xmas and understand why these trails drive the market so much and how most of the riding I do may never see application or consideration when these companies are at the drawing board. This sled fits the bill as being one that will satisfy the needs of the majority of trail riders, not ditch bangers, not powder hounds but trail riders.

The power steering is very interesting. Without knowing how the EPS works on the quads, I assume it must be the same. There's a bit of play in the first inch or two of turning the bars as the EPS kicks into gear based on the sled's speed and likely the throttle position. It is a very smooth system. Around the corners you find yourself easing the bars to turn, the new ski's dig in well, but you don't feel it in your arms. You know how your ski's catch and the carbides dig into a corner and that translates up the forearms? With this system the effort to the bars is light and you don't get the weight back at you when turning the corner. It took me a while to trust it. Usually when you're making that corner and your arms are feeling it, you know if you turn much more, you're either going to slide out or roll the thing from the ski lift. You aren't getting that kind of feedback with EPS, thus I was hesitating with that non-feeling/feedback that you'd normally get through the bars. I was thinking about some advantages afterwards, and one of them is controlling darting. Think about the way the ATV EPS works. You slam a rut or a rock and on a non EPS system that translates in a jolt through the bars and gives your wrists a good whack. EPS takes that hit for you and you don't feel it in the bars. Now apply that to darting on the trails, there's room for play in the ski's that may just help the sled stay controled and eliminate some handle bar fighting that would otherwise be taking place. We had a lot of loose snow, so darting wasn't really a problem on our ride, but I can see where EPS would really help with it.

So the steering is light, feels nice, the rear end is much the same. The in-between track length is very interesting. You aren't slipping around like a 121 yet you've got more maneuvering on this length than a 136. Its about finding the happy medium here. Putting extra rubber on the snow for traction, to handle the torque from the engine, yet provide that corner to corner capability. Its about what little things you can do to improve the riding characteristics. It's like set up for each of you, how many people spend hours trying to find the sweet spot with the adjustments that are available to you from carbides to suspension. Yamaha has dialed in this sled to really try to find that sweet spot out of the box and get the handling improved significantly. Instead of just shock valving and weight transfer, you're talking about more significant changes that make small differences in several area's. It is a relaxed positioned sled. I found the seat nice, a little higher than the others, and good padding, felt layered. There was a comment about the surface material being a little too slippery. The rear mono suspension was decent, the usual range of adjustment. This sled is aimed at the groomed trail, for the rider who is seeking out smooth terrain, not looking to get air or do any stand-up riding.

The handle bar warmers. I want them hotter, cause I think every bar warmer should be able to melt your hands at full power (I need that up north) so I still found them to be weak. At near freezing temps outside I shouldn't have been able to have those turned on full blast. Wasn't there a day when Yamaha's hand warmers with the twist knob for temperature were capable of cooking an egg? I say stick with what works and bring that back!

Tom, can we put pictures and video up? I filmed Chris' intro to the group at the start of the ride, but can't get that online cause I don't have the equipment to do so with me here in Ontario, but I do have some a quicktime movie I could upload to youtube of footage while we were stopped around the sled near the end of the day. I'll work on uploading that at youtube.com/gofenkoa check back Friday, i'll let it upload overnight.

They wouldn't let us take the hood apart but I looked at everything I could. Problem is I don't have a comparable sled so I wasn't sure what I was looking for that would be different.

There's a new graphic package on the guage, we didn't get to see it at night but that might be where it really shines. I did spot the EPS indicator on the LCD guage. I'm not sure if it is a warning indicator to notify you that the EPS is having a problem or not, but it didn't light up while riding, it only appeared when the sled was off and the key was in the on position. I tried to see if I could turn EPS off but couldn't figure it out. I was able to tell the difference from the EPS at idle, turning the bars by hand with the sled off, then starting it and continuing to move the bars, there was some assist there.

Many of the guys liked the windscreen that was on it. What else is under that hood, who knows, but I'm curious about some major weight savings that went on as part of this sleds modifications. I think there could be something significant to report on there.

A new tail light I believe? Again I wasn't comparing it to other machines.

I guess that's all I got, it was a nice handling sled, would love to see how I felt after 300 km's in a day on it vs. anything else out there. Remember the majority of the work/fatigue on the trails is pushing on the bars and shifting your weight...the more of that which is being done for you = a lot less spent energy from the rider. There was a comment about weaker riders really benefiting from this sleds set up as well. Remember all the 'it makes you a better rider' talk that was thrown around when the rider forward platforms came out? Well, this could be another significant enough step forward to apply that statement to again.

A HUGE thank you to Chris for the invite and for setting this up. It was awesome to finally put a face to the name of the guy who I harass on a bi-weekly basis about all my riding woes up north. For those of you who have met Chris, isn't he awesome? You really can't get any better than him. Yamaha has a gem, that's for sure. For those of you who haven't met him, he's a stand up guy who's down to earth and he's one smart cookie. No doubt about it. He knows his stuff, and he's learned it all being hands on. You can't learn what he knows in a text book. Chris, I really appreciate the opportunity you provided us with, and Tyler sends his thanks as well, he's doing a lot of bragging on his damned iphone. It was an absolute pleasure and honour to ride with you and get to know you on a personal and professional basis, and I'll make sure there's more opportunity for that down the road. All of this made the long drive well worth it! You tell me when to write up that proposal to come up to YK and i'll make it a shoe in.

A huge thank you to Yamaha Canada and the folks above and beyond. I can only imagine the nervous hands at the top who see an idea like this being considered and flag it as being too risky. You don't see many, if any things like this, up close and personal, but that doesn't mean they don't have their place, and yes, they can work and pay off in the end, this one sure did. I think Chris covers leaps and bounds breaking ground from the higher ups of a manufacturer where most, if not all won't dare to go. These kind of initiatives are a sign of the times moving forward and I hope they continue. Caution is good, but not taking any risk in the first place isn't going to benefit anyone the way this ride and adventure did.

Here's to the February launch. It was a pleasure riding with all you guys!

Cheers,
YK

As always, a very insightful and informative post.... Again, good job YK!!!!!!!!

I personally can't wait to try out the new Apex...... I harassed my dealer the other day with the spy photos, and they were very gracious that I provided them. In fact, I believe I earned myself a spot to try the new Apex when it comes to northern MN mid-February (around the time of the TY ride in Chisolm, MN, perhaps???? -- MN Ty'ers -- I believe you will see the new Apex at the Chisholm, MN TY ride Feb. 21st ).

While I have historically been a boondocker/ off-trail nut, my tastes are changing as I reach the latter 30's..... My wife and I really like to ride together and she is a trail person -- no off trail for her. My good friend Arteeex has a RTX Nytro that I absolutely love, and I'm coming to appreciate trail riding more and more. Point is, I could certainly see myself putting my hard earned $$$$$ down on either the 128, or presumably the 144 XTX version I think we'll see next year. Who knows, maybe the wife will own a nice power steering sled next year!


I myself am obviously very positive about this new sled. I love my Attak, but my arms do tire after a monster, full day's ride..... That EPS would absolutely rock! And happily for me, Yamaha seems to have kept the 4 holer engine, and seems to have made it faster. Man, I just LOVE that engine!!!!!

Thay also seemed to have improved the skis (HUGE), cured the inside ski lift, improved upon the Mono (I personally love the EC Mono w/ Ohlins), etc..

The one thing I would cetainly like to see is an XTX version with either Ohlins or better yet, Fox Float Shocks on the front. I prefer the EC Ohlins Mono on the rear.... JMO, but I like it.

I'm excited about the new sled. Good job Yamaha!!!!!

Mike

 

[Yellowknife]

I'm wondering if Yamaha is going to change the direction of their shocks as significantly as they did on their Nytro MTX's. There's a lot of weight savings there, but even more importantly is the range of adjustability. The easier it is for a manufacturer to provide a product to cover a wider range of applications, the better, and I think shocks is one area they may follow that up with. Maybe I read too much into what I hear on the trails

 

[Yellowknife]

here's pics...

 

[Yellowknife]

ignore those bad links, i must have put a few extra's in. its late, i'm going to bed, riding in the mornin don't ya know.

k here's some video, now i'm really going to bed. night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xERSXI62p8

 

[rightarm]

Great post YK the power steering part is a great piece of for me, I can't wait to give it a go .I know some of you are saying what's this guy getting so excited about but let me put it to you this way after a full day of riding my 03 RX1 with only 1 arm I'am pretty beat :exc: ,but this little EPS gem will make my riding a whole lot easier.If anyone will be able to notice the true difference of power steering it might just be me.Thanx Yamaha

 

[morrisond]

Rightarm, You will love it. Leave it the way Yammie built it and you will be very happy. It is that much better.

Yellowknife it was great to meet you. Simple question yes or no. If you could get EPS on your XTX and you were riding our trails would you want it or not?

As I have written before the great thing about EPS is that you will be able to run siginificantly more aggressive Skii's/Carbides than ever before, allowing you to have the confidence you can actually turn it at much higher speeds.

Try putting 255mm front tires on a car from yesteryear(1960's 911's without powersteering) and seeing if you can turn. Back then they didn't really go beyond 185-195 on the front, now 255's are common, with a hell of a lot more grip.

I think what this will do is once people figure it out they will buying a lot more wide front end kits, as cornering speeds will be higher(with more aggressive Skiis and Carbides) and you will need the extra width to keep the sled from flipping due to the higher g's.

Every Ditch banger racer wannabe rider will be clamoring for it after one ride, so they can run C&A's.

 

[Yellowknife]

Yellowknife it was great to meet you. Simple question yes or no. If you could get EPS on your XTX and you were riding our trails would you want it or not?

Same here! On the EPS, yeah, I think it'd be awesome to have on any sled.

 

[yzman]

That white phazer i see in the pics . she appears to be longer looking then the phazer short tracks . There seems like theres 4 or 5 inches after the tool box i sees. compaired to not even a inch on the short track models . is it custom? , or can we expect it to be a expermental sled ? rails look OEM and not a aftermarket extension

 

[kyzer]

I think EPS will really help with the handling of the sleds ..Can't wait to try it..

 

[TrailxRider]

this may be a stupid question but do you think it's possible for conversion kits to convert older yamaha sleds to use the new power steering technology in a kit?

I wonder if the power steering ends up being a success if yamaha will make this for their older sleds.

 

[Yellowknife]

yzman, that's my Mountain Lite in those pics stock 2007.

 

[Yellowknife]

this may be a stupid question but do you think it's possible for conversion kits to convert older yamaha sleds to use the new power steering technology in a kit?

I'd say no, because of the amount of parts required, the ECU would be different, possibly the tie rods, the LCD guage, etc. It would be expensive by my guess. EPS quads were a $600 difference I believe? I can't see how buying all the EPS components for a sled would be cheap or that they would have enough of a market to sell many of them.

 

[yzman]

I hate seeing how everyone is all upset , saying i can't believe THAT is a game changer . I think yamaha has done very well , Because the apex is one of the best looking sleds out there . And the new sled , looks even better , sure it might not look much different , but hearing from reviews , it is a game changer , A sled that can out-perform in the trails , ride with ease , and make better drivers out of people . people go on about they needs to drop 100 pounds and have atleast 180 Horsepower , but why? its not a ditchbanger or a boondocker , go buy a nytro or a mtx for that , this sled is a game changer in the trails , where the sled belongs . I my self would love to try this sled , and im boondocker and mountain type of guy . EPS really appeals to me , and its gonna become the future of sledding .

 

[yzman]

yzman, that's my Mountain Lite in those pics stock 2007.

Really ? what are you running for a track ? must be missing alot of lugs? i was thinking it looks to be 1.25 on it , I have extended my 09 phazer mtx to 151 and added 2.33 by 14 challenger . Really brings this sled to life .