2014-2018 understanding the Viper

[Dano]

OK, been out of the loop since I jumped ship after my 2010 Nytro XTX. Although their were a couple things I didn't like about my Nytro, it was a great sled overall. Slapping that motor in the procross to have the procross ergonomics benefits and a great motor really seemed to be a hit to have your cake and eat it too. Its actually motor/ergonomics a perfect sled for me. However, with the real life gremlins and Cat DNA, their was enough to be unsure about and enough for me to jump ship. Now seeing the Sidewinder with an all Yamaha engine and mapped by Yamaha, why did yamaha not map the Viper in 2014 and still to this day not clean it up? At first I thought Cat was doing the mapping because they were gonna future turbo the engine to replace the suzuki, but obviously that direction didn't happen.
My Nytro would hit 106 mph GPS in perfect conditions, but overall it was a 100 mph sled, which is all I really need. Now I know the Viper exhaust does a tight 180 turn so how much hp did this really rob? Everyone speaks of the Viper hitting a wall at 90 mph. Why is there still a wall after 4 years of tuning? Is there less HP then an actual 600 2-stroke? Is the mapping that hard to figure out? Is the clutching/gearing combo still far off? Or does this engine really only produce 105 hp? Why on earth would Cat not pay the flight to have the Yamaha brains to tune this sled once and for all?

I know there is more to it then what I know and probably a little politics in the Yamy/cat marriage, but the new sidewinder was given more yamie love in one year then the 4 year Viper ever had.

Dan

 

[STAIN]

I think the biggest reason is the suspension drag. The skid has higher angles of attack than the nitro skid and slows the sled down top speed. Its the price you pay for longer travel/rider forward. I don't believe the motor is the reason.
The Viper issues are---starter kickback on some models. Some vendors here have seemed to cure this problem.
Some concern over chain case issues. I believe these are solved with proper chain tension and regular service. The lack of a drain plug makes this harder/messier. The 2014's were sprung and valved a little stiff, a Yamaha tradition it seems.
I think the Viper has been unfairly bashed. Many bash it without even riding one. I know the fit and finish is not Apex quality. But before the Sidewinder came out it was unarguably the most comfortable and best handling sled over a wide range of conditions Yamaha EVER made. If you looking to do 100mph all day then this probably not the sled you need. I have a 2014 turbo Viper with 8000 miles and love it. I can ride it all day, day after day. I very rarely see the opportunity to go over 100mph so all out top end is not my concern.

Those waiting for a new model to come from Japan will have to wait a long time. Yamaha moved their headquarters to Canada with an eye on moving production also.

 

[greatwhite89]

I think the biggest reason is the suspension drag. The skid has higher angles of attack than the nitro skid and slows the sled down top speed. Its the price you pay for longer travel/rider forward. I don't believe the motor is the reason.
The Viper issues are---starter kickback on some models. Some vendors here have seemed to cure this problem.
Some concern over chain case issues. I believe these are solved with proper chain tension and regular service. The lack of a drain plug makes this harder/messier. The 2014's were sprung and valved a little stiff, a Yamaha tradition it seems.
I think the Viper has been unfairly bashed. Many bash it without even riding one. I know the fit and finish is not Apex quality. But before the Sidewinder came out it was unarguably the most comfortable and best handling sled over a wide range of conditions Yamaha EVER made. If you looking to do 100mph all day then this probably not the sled you need. I have a 2014 turbo Viper with 8000 miles and love it. I can ride it all day, day after day. I very rarely see the opportunity to go over 100mph so all out top end is not my concern.

Those waiting for a new model to come from Japan will have to wait a long time. Yamaha moved their headquarters to Canada with an eye on moving production also.

Has there been minor tweaks over the years on the viper since 2014? Hopefully they have continued to improve upon it. What are the benefits of owning a 2017 versus a 2014, beyond simply being newer?

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

 

[Dano]

I think the biggest reason is the suspension drag. The skid has higher angles of attack than the nitro skid and slows the sled down top speed. Its the price you pay for longer travel/rider forward. I don't believe the motor is the reason.
The Viper issues are---starter kickback on some models. Some vendors here have seemed to cure this problem.
Some concern over chain case issues. I believe these are solved with proper chain tension and regular service. The lack of a drain plug makes this harder/messier. The 2014's were sprung and valved a little stiff, a Yamaha tradition it seems.
I think the Viper has been unfairly bashed. Many bash it without even riding one. I know the fit and finish is not Apex quality. But before the Sidewinder came out it was unarguably the most comfortable and best handling sled over a wide range of conditions Yamaha EVER made. If you looking to do 100mph all day then this probably not the sled you need. I have a 2014 turbo Viper with 8000 miles and love it. I can ride it all day, day after day. I very rarely see the opportunity to go over 100mph so all out top end is not my concern.

Those waiting for a new model to come from Japan will have to wait a long time. Yamaha moved their headquarters to Canada with an eye on moving production also.

I don't expect fit and finish to be all yamaha, but my biggest concern is more on calibrations. Many issues on the Viper were not an issue on the Nytro so I think it brings up valid points. I don't think the procross setup is any slower as far as the chassis goes when equipped with same profile track. I'm more led to believe its either engine mapping or more restricted exhaust. Tall setup-long travel suspension kill top speed, but both Polaris and Doo have same configurations. I'm not looking for a speed demon, but on the other hand I don't feel like something is right if a 600 2-stroke out runs me on a lake.
Allot of New non current Vipers can be had right now at good pricing, but not sure what actually improved as to this day the beloved Nytro still seems to be better calibrated in both engine and clutching combo. My guess is a Viper can be better mapped and clutched aftermarket?
The weird part is, back in 2012 I rode Rockerdans new (at the time) 1100 turbo and thought in the back of my mind, if only I can get my Nytro motor in this thing. And I remember posting that on this site.....low and behold it actually came to life in 2014. Guess from that point on and seeing the gremlins of the procross and 2014 Viper pains, it takes baby steps to have faith in Thief River falls.

Dan

 

[cannondale27]

I don't expect fit and finish to be all yamaha, but my biggest concern is more on calibrations. Many issues on the Viper were not an issue on the Nytro so I think it brings up valid points. I don't think the procross setup is any slower as far as the chassis goes when equipped with same profile track. I'm more led to believe its either engine mapping or more restricted exhaust. Tall setup-long travel suspension kill top speed, but both Polaris and Doo have same configurations. I'm not looking for a speed demon, but on the other hand I don't feel like something is right if a 600 2-stroke out runs me on a lake.
Allot of New non current Vipers can be had right now at good pricing, but not sure what actually improved as to this day the beloved Nytro still seems to be better calibrated in both engine and clutching combo. My guess is a Viper can be better mapped and clutched aftermarket?
The weird part is, back in 2012 I rode Rockerdans new (at the time) 1100 turbo and thought in the back of my mind, if only I can get my Nytro motor in this thing. And I remember posting that on this site.....low and behold it actually came to life in 2014. Guess from that point on and seeing the gremlins of the procross and 2014 Viper pains, it takes baby steps to have faith in Thief River falls.

Dan

I don't know who started the Nytro is faster than Viper Rumor. Its a Bunch of Bull. Only Nytros that are faster are modded. Stock for stock mod for mod and track for track they are equal speed or dang close. Nytro just seems faster because of body position and you are always tense from fear of the next quirky maneuver the thing is going to do! The Vipers have had refinements since intro. Different Jackshafts,different shock valving and shocks,skid geometry changes,ECU flashes,skis and even the new motor in 16. Most of these were successful and improved sled.Some like skis,Loss of RR skid in LE,16 motor with bad rods and were not always successful. Do your homework its all here. Still love my 14!

 

[schmidtty]

I don't know who started the Nytro is faster than Viper Rumor. Its a Bunch of Bull. Only Nytros that are faster are modded. Stock for stock mod for mod and track for track they are equal speed or dang close. Nytro just seems faster because of body position and you are always tense from fear of the next quirky maneuver the thing is going to do! The Vipers have had refinements since intro. Different Jackshafts,different shock valving and shocks,skid geometry changes,ECU flashes,skis and even the new motor in 16. Most of these were successful and improved sled.Some like skis,Loss of RR skid in LE,16 motor with bad rods and were not always successful. Do your homework its all here. Still love my 14!

 

[schmidtty]

have a 2016 mtx viper and haven/t had a bit of issues with it turned over to 2000 miles and it will out run my 2009 nitro mtx

 

[hellflyer]

My 16 LTX LE has been flawless in the 3000or so miles I've put on it ,the last 2000 turboed. Mine did 94mph out of the box the very first ride on a rail bed and those speedos are a lot more accurate than the nytro which is out by a few mph at 100.

 

[Dano]

I don't know who started the Nytro is faster than Viper Rumor. Its a Bunch of Bull. Only Nytros that are faster are modded. Stock for stock mod for mod and track for track they are equal speed or dang close. Nytro just seems faster because of body position and you are always tense from fear of the next quirky maneuver the thing is going to do! The Vipers have had refinements since intro. Different Jackshafts,different shock valving and shocks,skid geometry changes,ECU flashes,skis and even the new motor in 16. Most of these were successful and improved sled.Some like skis,Loss of RR skid in LE,16 motor with bad rods and were not always successful. Do your homework its all here. Still love my 14!

well I've done my homework and feel uneasy buying one because of the research hence the reason why I'm trying to narrow it down. Just seems to be inconsistencies on which new non-current version is best. Now that I'm thinking about it, the speed controversy may be inflated as the Nytro did have speedo calibration way off where the Viper is said to be much more accurate. However, everybody thats owned both seem to think the Viper comes short in the speed department. I still have a bucket full of yamaha clutch parts that I'm sure I can fine tune a Viper. I'm willing to bet the Viper is also making less power and not sure if its the ECU or exhaust restriction or both. Guess its time to demo a newer version and see what I think.

Dan

 

[Dano]

My 16 LTX LE has been flawless in the 3000or so miles I've put on it ,the last 2000 turboed. Mine did 94mph out of the box the very first ride on a rail bed and those speedos are a lot more accurate than the nytro which is out by a few mph at 100.

The LTX LE would be the one I want

Dan

 

[Kkurz]

Well Dano, I can tell you that the procross chassis is hands down, a better handling chassis than the FX Nytro. I rode my '08 40th Anniversary Edition for 5 seasons and just bought and rode the Cat XF 7000 which, except for clutching is the same sled. While I loved the motor in the Nytro, Cannondale nailed it! The ride was so inconsistent on it and quirky that I found I had to fight it to ride it most of the time. I just did 150 miles today on a new to me '14, and aside from changing the carbides and maybe a different windshield, this thing is what I need! Top speed on the lake today was 147km/hr. I'm good with that. Fit and finish? I still love it! Don't be afraid of it, I'm amazed at the animosity shown by some because it isn't 100% Yamaha. Face it, everyone is chasing BRP for their slice of the pie. Yamaha and Cat are no dummies.

 

[jsslye]

Yo Dano, I put 9200 miles on my 2009 Nytro RTX-SE before retiring it for a '16 Viper LTX-LE and I have ZERO regrets. I loved LOVED my Nytro and I was afraid I would lose some of the torque/arm-socket-pull, and that nice exhaust tone of a GROWL from the Nytro but within 2 miles on the Viper, those doubts and thoughts were gone, and then some. PLUS it is so easy to steer and requires no mods to fix heavy steering and darting (yeah, for a 4 stroke, blah blah blah) but it really is easier to ride - just point it and pin it. Zero problems as well.

 

[68ozzy]

Dano i second what jsslye said above. Feels like power steering and I ride it not fight it. Arms are not sore after a day of riding. I have the 2017 Ltx le

 

[Sevey]

I have been sitting on the fence now a few years racking up miles on my nytro. The only thing I have to add is - although the nytro is far from perfect, it worked. Everyone I have come in contact with a viper has had major issue with it. They commute regularly to their dealer looking for a fix. With winters that are insanely short, this is no way to be. Other than a starter relay, and rad fan relay the nytro just worked.

Not producing that motor with a Yamaha ECU was criminal. Cat has been chasing their tail every year reflashing and hoping for the best. Would like to get into this chassis but waiting for them to get it right. They ruined an opportunity to make a fabulous sled that can do everything the nytro couldn't and vector for that matter.

Still waiting.
MS

 

[cannondale27]

I have been sitting on the fence now a few years racking up miles on my nytro. The only thing I have to add is - although the nytro is far from perfect, it worked. Everyone I have come in contact with a viper has had major issue with it. They commute regularly to their dealer looking for a fix. With winters that are insanely short, this is no way to be. Other than a starter relay, and rad fan relay the nytro just worked.

Not producing that motor with a Yamaha ECU was criminal. Cat has been chasing their tail every year reflashing and hoping for the best. Would like to get into this chassis but waiting for them to get it right. They ruined an opportunity to make a fabulous sled that can do everything the nytro couldn't and vector for that matter.

Still waiting.
MS

It could just be that Yamaha thought it was a simple thing to Program a ECU and Cat could handle it. Its not criminal. I would think the same thing. IF the Sidewinder proves to be glitch proof wiring wise and ECU wise then you will have been proven right since all wiring is same except for the ECU. So far it does look like you are correct. I am hopeful the Viper ECU is capable of matching the Sidewinders but maybe it just isn't capable? I will concede that point of Nytro vs Viper.