Yellowknife
TY 4 Stroke Master
I'm waiting to test my mountian lite at low temps. Normally we've hit -40 by now, coldest I've seen since picking up the phazer is -22C and it started no problem.
Thrusted Vector
Expert
Call cutomer service about it,in Canada that seems to get results.
BV1
Expert
I have experienced this too.
Gypsy, your getting up there in the miles for sure, I would change the plugs yourself.
Pull the seat off, (two bolts on the side of it) and then pull the gas tank off, you can see the bolts once you have the seat off. If you have a warm area to work it wont take long, if not, its still doable if your out of the wind.
At your mileage I would change the plugs just for good measure and at those temps I would make sure you always got some iso propanyl in there.
It makes a world of difference.
-Steve
Gypsy, your getting up there in the miles for sure, I would change the plugs yourself.
Pull the seat off, (two bolts on the side of it) and then pull the gas tank off, you can see the bolts once you have the seat off. If you have a warm area to work it wont take long, if not, its still doable if your out of the wind.
At your mileage I would change the plugs just for good measure and at those temps I would make sure you always got some iso propanyl in there.
It makes a world of difference.
-Steve
sledlady
Newbie
Good to hear that Gypsy. Keep us informed on what oil works best in that beast. I too plan many days out in the Alaska cold with a Black lite.
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
Sounds like you should be talking to your dealer about getting you a new oil pressure switch.
Even more to the point it sounds like Yamaha should consider updating their software to initially allow the engine to start before the oil pressure switch has triggered, but then only shut the engine down if the oil pressure doesn't built up within a second or two.
To the best of my knowledge most engines with low oil pressure shut offs allow the engine to initially start and only shut down after a short period of time without oil pressure.
My understanding is Yamaha's 120 and 150 engines don't even have an oil pressure switch. You turn the key and as long as there's fuel pressure they start.
Even more to the point it sounds like Yamaha should consider updating their software to initially allow the engine to start before the oil pressure switch has triggered, but then only shut the engine down if the oil pressure doesn't built up within a second or two.
To the best of my knowledge most engines with low oil pressure shut offs allow the engine to initially start and only shut down after a short period of time without oil pressure.
My understanding is Yamaha's 120 and 150 engines don't even have an oil pressure switch. You turn the key and as long as there's fuel pressure they start.
gsxr
TY 4 Stroke Master
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I took my cyl head off , to install a head shim for the mcx turbo kit . While doing that I found out the exhaust camshaft has a device built into it for a mechanical decompressor ! The engine has to turn at a certain speed to close , (by centrifical force) , the exhaust valves close to produce enough compression to start ! I believe the cold start issue it not oil pressure at all , but that with cold oil , the engine can not turn fast enough to close the valves to fire !!!
That is why we all have different starting issues , based on oil viscosity not , pressure related at all!
Even to the point that I am reasonally sure the sled does not even monitor oil pressure to start !!!!!
That is why we all have different starting issues , based on oil viscosity not , pressure related at all!
Even to the point that I am reasonally sure the sled does not even monitor oil pressure to start !!!!!
Mtn-Track
Extreme
GSXR,
Not the case on the oil sensor. Check out Code 30 of the engine diagnostics.
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... highlight=
And from Whadoiknow on an earlier post:
"My dealer was just at the Yamaha update seminar last week. They told him the Phazer had to build oil pressure before it will let the injectors fire. That is why it unit turns over so much when cold; it takes time to build oil pressure. It was tested in very cold temps so battery power should be okay. This is the first Yamaha with this saftey system. It also explains why it doesn't start as quickly as an Apex when it's warm. Sounds like a good idea though..."
Not the case on the oil sensor. Check out Code 30 of the engine diagnostics.
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... highlight=
And from Whadoiknow on an earlier post:
"My dealer was just at the Yamaha update seminar last week. They told him the Phazer had to build oil pressure before it will let the injectors fire. That is why it unit turns over so much when cold; it takes time to build oil pressure. It was tested in very cold temps so battery power should be okay. This is the first Yamaha with this saftey system. It also explains why it doesn't start as quickly as an Apex when it's warm. Sounds like a good idea though..."
sniperviper
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
gsxr said:
Think you are wrong here.. This automatic decompression system is the same as on dirtbike wr450f and this engines are construckted to start with one or maybe two exhaustvalve open. Valve will not close before engine runs. No way that the startengine can spin the engine fast enough to close valve. If this sled has been without a decompression system we would need a really big and strong startengine + batteri.
Interesting thread! As I've read through the posts, each of my theorys keeps being ruined as the info becomes available.
#1 it seems like your dealer is not trying very hard to help you out. How many Phazers did he sell this season? Seems like he/she knows that they have the monopoly on yor region.
#2 since you went to regular fuel I think your oil may be suspect. Unfortunately. you have the correct oil in your sled.
#3 I hate to bring it up but 1st year sleds always have problems and I think your sled has some type of sensor malfunction. Sounds like others of TY are able to start their Phazers easily at colder temps. That points towards your issue being isolated and some kind of fluke problem. Sorrry but I don't have an answer. I think i is some thing weird with your sled.
#1 it seems like your dealer is not trying very hard to help you out. How many Phazers did he sell this season? Seems like he/she knows that they have the monopoly on yor region.
#2 since you went to regular fuel I think your oil may be suspect. Unfortunately. you have the correct oil in your sled.
#3 I hate to bring it up but 1st year sleds always have problems and I think your sled has some type of sensor malfunction. Sounds like others of TY are able to start their Phazers easily at colder temps. That points towards your issue being isolated and some kind of fluke problem. Sorrry but I don't have an answer. I think i is some thing weird with your sled.
gsxr
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Re oil pressure , you are right on the code30. But the engine will run for approx 15 seconds before it shuts down , not seeing oil pressure , then displays code 30.
The reason I know this is when I drained my oil , left it empty for 3 days , while installing the turbo it did exactly this , until I aded 3 lbs pressure to the oil tank to prime the oil pump. The engine would run 15 sec. then stop , show code 30. Therfore the engine WILL start without oil pressue proving the fact the engine does not have to see it (re cold start ) , to start !!!!
The reason I know this is when I drained my oil , left it empty for 3 days , while installing the turbo it did exactly this , until I aded 3 lbs pressure to the oil tank to prime the oil pump. The engine would run 15 sec. then stop , show code 30. Therfore the engine WILL start without oil pressue proving the fact the engine does not have to see it (re cold start ) , to start !!!!
gsxr
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Futher I believe the cold start issue is too thick oil , not allowing the engine to crank fast enough , for enough centrifical force , to overcome the decompression system the close exhaust valves and start !!!
fix , warm , or thin oil 0w40 amaoil !!!!!!!
fix , warm , or thin oil 0w40 amaoil !!!!!!!
gsxr
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read the top of this page , oil temp made a world of difference !!!
oil viscosity, amount of charge in the battery ,outside temp , miles of breakin , will be factors for cold start!!
oil viscosity, amount of charge in the battery ,outside temp , miles of breakin , will be factors for cold start!!
gsxr
TY 4 Stroke Master
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Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:35 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"QUOTE" GSXR,
Not the case on the oil sensor. Check out Code 30 of the engine
diagnostics.
BUT ,
The engine WILL start , run for 15 sec. , then if it sees no oil pressure , it will shut down , then display code 30 !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"QUOTE" GSXR,
Not the case on the oil sensor. Check out Code 30 of the engine
diagnostics.
BUT ,
The engine WILL start , run for 15 sec. , then if it sees no oil pressure , it will shut down , then display code 30 !
jp@weknowsnow
Expert
i had a bad cold start experience yesterday. i parked my mtn lite up above treeline around 12k foot. it was really windy and probably like -20F or worse with wind chill, left the sled there for 4 hours or so while we took laps snowboarding and tandem riding my friends widetrack. when i went to start it, it took at least 8-10 trys with each try lasting more then 10 seconds. the thing sounded dead, barely turn over. i would let the pump run and try again, on for a few seconds and then off. on for a few seconds and off. this lasted like 5 minutes or more, finally when we were about to give up and i was getting stink eye from my friends. i waited about 30 seconds, tried again, cranked it and it slowly fired. i had to let it warm up for 5 or 10 minutes before i could ride down out of the wind. good thing we built a nice snow cave close by!
frees-tyler
Extreme
jp@weknowsnow I luv hearing your stories, it's like an episode of "survivor man" only you're "PHAZOR MAN" Bustin' snow thru the backcountry and building snow caves all the while enduring the nasty "stink eye"... Awesome!
btw...those are some great pics you've taken
btw...those are some great pics you've taken
