rfabro
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
gsxr, the decompressor mechanism is never spun fast enough by the starter to disengage. Yes, the engine fires with the exhaust valves held slightly cracked open then the decompressor disengages at an RPM between starter and idle RPM. Gypsy, I'm convinced this is a cold thick oil problem and the safety system is catching it. "Pour at 50 Below" sounds like the answer to me. I would also disregard the owner's manual and change your spark plugs and adjust valve lash while doing first oil/filter change.
powder muncher
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Last word I heard from our Yamaha Guru here in the Yukon is that Yamaha is looking at a re-mapped cdi box to facilitate easier starting, so they are working on it!!!!!!!! I hope it will be a free update.
cold starting
GypsyRoot, please don't discount what I'm going to say. After watching and listening to your video, I suspect an electrical grounding problem. I suspect that all these machines suffer to some extent and yours is just a little worse than the norm. I base this on what I experienced with my 03 RX1. One of the first mods I did was to replace the heavy stock battery with a smaller lightweight one. This required moving the cables to relocate the small battery in the nose of the sled. The sled started fine in above zero temps but would not start in the cold. It cranked over nice and fast but just wouldn't catch just like your video. I decided the small battery was the problem but when I went to put the original battery back in I found that the ground where it attaches to the motor was only finger tight. After tightening the connection my problems disappeared. I suspect that the grounding scheme on these machines may not be good. If it were my machine, I would replace the battery cables and ground straps with home made ones out of welding cable. Be sure to crimp and solder the ends. The difference between your sled and all the others could just be a poorly crimped connection to a lug and you could never tell by looking. It is well known that Harley Davidson motorcycles suffer from this problem. There is a guy that makes a living selling upgraded battery cables for Harleys. From the testamonials on his website, you would think this is some miracle cure.
GypsyRoot, please don't discount what I'm going to say. After watching and listening to your video, I suspect an electrical grounding problem. I suspect that all these machines suffer to some extent and yours is just a little worse than the norm. I base this on what I experienced with my 03 RX1. One of the first mods I did was to replace the heavy stock battery with a smaller lightweight one. This required moving the cables to relocate the small battery in the nose of the sled. The sled started fine in above zero temps but would not start in the cold. It cranked over nice and fast but just wouldn't catch just like your video. I decided the small battery was the problem but when I went to put the original battery back in I found that the ground where it attaches to the motor was only finger tight. After tightening the connection my problems disappeared. I suspect that the grounding scheme on these machines may not be good. If it were my machine, I would replace the battery cables and ground straps with home made ones out of welding cable. Be sure to crimp and solder the ends. The difference between your sled and all the others could just be a poorly crimped connection to a lug and you could never tell by looking. It is well known that Harley Davidson motorcycles suffer from this problem. There is a guy that makes a living selling upgraded battery cables for Harleys. From the testamonials on his website, you would think this is some miracle cure.
Yellowknife
TY 4 Stroke Master
This is from my dealer:
Yamaha may
send
up a cold start cdi box for us to test...so they are obviously working
on an
update.
I'm not really have any cold start issues though. It starts fine at -22 C (-8 F)...then the temp jumped down to -30 C (-22 F) and I needed to plug it in for 20 minutes (circ heater) and it started easily.
This morning was a record low for the year at -37 C (-35 F) and I plugged in the circ heater for 35 minutes and it started but took more cranking to go.
Yamaha may
send
up a cold start cdi box for us to test...so they are obviously working
on an
update.
I'm not really have any cold start issues though. It starts fine at -22 C (-8 F)...then the temp jumped down to -30 C (-22 F) and I needed to plug it in for 20 minutes (circ heater) and it started easily.
This morning was a record low for the year at -37 C (-35 F) and I plugged in the circ heater for 35 minutes and it started but took more cranking to go.
powder muncher
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I don't have any more details on the cdi box but it is in the works , we are obviously not the only ones who have heard it. And yes with just a little heat and they start easy. A hairdryer on the oil-tank with a blanket over the sled will do it any time, I just don't always have a hairdryer with me in the bush.
Yellowknife
TY 4 Stroke Master
Yeah I'm thinking the battery blanket was a waste of money and that the coolant circ would have been plenty. On some units they are installing a coolant circ, battery blanket and a trickle charger!
gabe7924
Pro
Did you show him the video?
Yellowknife
TY 4 Stroke Master
I totally feel for you and understand what you are going through.
When I purchased a $15,000 CDN 2004 MXZ Renegade SDI, it was a lemon from the start with nothing but problem after problem...and the dealer gave me the same stuff you've been getting. It is extremely frusterating...you just want to get your money back and be done with it! It's a total pain in the rear end and you get screwed every way possible with little recoarse.
Looking back at my experience, it would have been worth it to get a lawyer and get my refund on the unit instead of go through an entire season of frusteration. Instead I ended up getting screwed over and over, and sold the sled at a huge loss at the end of the season.
Every brand has situations like this. If you can take serious legal action against the issue, I would do it now. Don't wait, it isn't worth the time. The money I lost on the unit was far more than I would have spent on a lawyer. When push comes to shove, Yamaha wouldn't let it go to court. I strongly suggest you speak with a supervisor directly at Yamaha and have a lawyer with you speaking on your behalf.
When I purchased a $15,000 CDN 2004 MXZ Renegade SDI, it was a lemon from the start with nothing but problem after problem...and the dealer gave me the same stuff you've been getting. It is extremely frusterating...you just want to get your money back and be done with it! It's a total pain in the rear end and you get screwed every way possible with little recoarse.
Looking back at my experience, it would have been worth it to get a lawyer and get my refund on the unit instead of go through an entire season of frusteration. Instead I ended up getting screwed over and over, and sold the sled at a huge loss at the end of the season.
Every brand has situations like this. If you can take serious legal action against the issue, I would do it now. Don't wait, it isn't worth the time. The money I lost on the unit was far more than I would have spent on a lawyer. When push comes to shove, Yamaha wouldn't let it go to court. I strongly suggest you speak with a supervisor directly at Yamaha and have a lawyer with you speaking on your behalf.
Yellowknife
TY 4 Stroke Master
Why not. As far as I'm concerned these dealers need to treat these sleds like car dealers treat their vehicles. When I purchase a new truck, if it doesn't work the way it should, they get it back, and if they have it longer than a day, I get a rental at their expense. Too many dealers don't step up, not realising that some riders depend on their sleds as primary modes of transportation, not to mention just dropping thousands on a unit that isn't working right....being told there's nothing wrong is a cop out, this dealer needs a good smack! Maybe Yamaha needs to hear about the lack of customer support and force the issue with the dealer...I don't know how much Yamaha is willing to back up its customers...I got mixed reaction when I had ATV problems with Yamaha.
Yellowknife
TY 4 Stroke Master
Well, it's another step of frusteration.
With my SDI, it wouldn't start properly below -20, or wouldn't start at all. When I phoned BRP, I found out that my dealer told them it was because I wasn't pulling the pull cord fast enough to get it to start. Of coarse that was a total load of b.s.
I agree that changing spark plugs will not do squat. If anything they should be changing major components that tell the fuel injection when to fire, etc.
With my SDI, it wouldn't start properly below -20, or wouldn't start at all. When I phoned BRP, I found out that my dealer told them it was because I wasn't pulling the pull cord fast enough to get it to start. Of coarse that was a total load of b.s.
I agree that changing spark plugs will not do squat. If anything they should be changing major components that tell the fuel injection when to fire, etc.
Irondoghalf
Veteran
I watched your video on Youtube. Its pretty self-explanatory, IMO.
Personally, I would allow the dealer to change the plugs, and I believe Yamaha is picking up the tab. May as well take the free plugs. Like you say, you won't be able to test its startability until the temperature drops again, which may be weeks.
When that finally happens, if it starts, we all learned something. If it did nothing, I would go back to the dealer and tell him. If you get the same brush off (no doubt he is now pissed at you for going to Yamaha directly), then go directly to Myron Angstmans Law Offices and get Yamaha back on the speakerphone. Tell them you are sending them your Youtube video of the two sleds you own verifying the no-start condition in cold weather in your one sled. Ask them to have their technical department to look at it.
Then get Myron on the phone and have him tell them this snowmobile is going to be parked in a prominent place in downtown Bethel, chained against theft, with a sign on it stating: IT WILL NOT START WHEN ITS BELOW ZERO. Explain to them that Bethel is the largest rural Eskimo village in Alaska, it is a regional hub that serves thousands of subsistence hunters that depend on quality machinery in their everyday lives. Mention that this postcard snowmobile, advertised as a new model from Yamaha and non-working will be devastating to future Yamaha snowmobile sales in the entire region of Western Alaska. And, because of the manufacturer affiliation, sales of Yamaha outboards and Atv's will no doubt suffer as well.
I am willing to bet they will either make arrangements to have it properly fixed, even if that means a backhaul to Anchorage, or they will offer to replace it.
Personally, I would allow the dealer to change the plugs, and I believe Yamaha is picking up the tab. May as well take the free plugs. Like you say, you won't be able to test its startability until the temperature drops again, which may be weeks.
When that finally happens, if it starts, we all learned something. If it did nothing, I would go back to the dealer and tell him. If you get the same brush off (no doubt he is now pissed at you for going to Yamaha directly), then go directly to Myron Angstmans Law Offices and get Yamaha back on the speakerphone. Tell them you are sending them your Youtube video of the two sleds you own verifying the no-start condition in cold weather in your one sled. Ask them to have their technical department to look at it.
Then get Myron on the phone and have him tell them this snowmobile is going to be parked in a prominent place in downtown Bethel, chained against theft, with a sign on it stating: IT WILL NOT START WHEN ITS BELOW ZERO. Explain to them that Bethel is the largest rural Eskimo village in Alaska, it is a regional hub that serves thousands of subsistence hunters that depend on quality machinery in their everyday lives. Mention that this postcard snowmobile, advertised as a new model from Yamaha and non-working will be devastating to future Yamaha snowmobile sales in the entire region of Western Alaska. And, because of the manufacturer affiliation, sales of Yamaha outboards and Atv's will no doubt suffer as well.
I am willing to bet they will either make arrangements to have it properly fixed, even if that means a backhaul to Anchorage, or they will offer to replace it.
Yellowknife
TY 4 Stroke Master
Great suggestion. Don't let them run you over, cause if you do, they'll just keep driving on you!
Just watch your video. My Big Bear 350 is doing exactly the samething. When it's cold NoStart, unless I boosted after wait about 15 minutes. Been doing that for the pass 4 months. I've changed plug, battery, cleanup card, choke assembly....
The dealer called me and told me that some kind of module near the stator was faulty.
Hopefully they will find what wrong with yours and I agreed with you the problem it's not the plugs.
Good luck
The dealer called me and told me that some kind of module near the stator was faulty.
Hopefully they will find what wrong with yours and I agreed with you the problem it's not the plugs.
Good luck
powder muncher
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
On the 3 cylinder changing the plugs when it didn't start did make all the difference. However as soon as it didn't start again a few days later it was time once more to change them , it didn't fix the problem but helped to get it going.
After 1300 miles with all your problems it would be wise to change them just to make sure.
After 1300 miles with all your problems it would be wise to change them just to make sure.
RollRite
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2004
- Messages
- 113
- Age
- 60
- Location
- Pickerel , Wisconsin
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2011 Apex
I had ageo car one time it did the same thing when it got cold it wouldn't start.I had it at the dealer many times and could't find anything wrong.So I call gm and they called the dealer and changed the map senser. Do the phazers have a map senser.
