BlgsRX-1mtn
TY 4 Stroke God
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2003
- Messages
- 1,530
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- Billings, MT
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- USA
- Snowmobile
- '03 RX-1 Mountain LE
You're welcome. Also note my edit to the previous post to add a link to a product that should help you and GypsyRoots out.
Jim
Jim
smokeless1
Pro
Two points:
1) I have used starting fluid AS DIRECTED for 45 years. It works. If you put half a can in you will be tearing the engine down from washed cylinder walls and somebody who doesn't know what they are doing can easily do this. But used sparingly, it will get things started to -45f pretty handy. Problem is gett'n it to the cylinders so it can work. Where the sparkplug is exposed it isn't a problem, but the phazer and other 4 strokes don't make that very easy. If I were taking my sled into the bush and COUNTING on it for a return trip, I would probably take the time to feed a tiny tube to the throttle bodies so I could hook it to the can and give it a squirt while turning the engine over.
In any event, this is what the stuff is made for and it works very well. Admittedly you can mess up an engine and the 35 year mechanic probably has gotten lots of work from just that. But used carefully when vaporization of the fuel is the only reason for poor start, it does a fine job.
2) I am curious as heck as to the very low octain fuel in Alaska. I know my bro lives in Denver and he has some lower octain fuel everyone uses there because it is 5000 feet above sea level, but at sea level in Alaska, I don't get it. Is this because the octane falls the longer it sets around so they have to post the eventual octane level, or is it by design and if so, then how come you don't have way more troubles with cars, trucks and older carbed cars that could not run very well on such low octane gas. I had a GM product that used to ping like a son of a gun when I used anything less than 87 octane.
So what gives.
1) I have used starting fluid AS DIRECTED for 45 years. It works. If you put half a can in you will be tearing the engine down from washed cylinder walls and somebody who doesn't know what they are doing can easily do this. But used sparingly, it will get things started to -45f pretty handy. Problem is gett'n it to the cylinders so it can work. Where the sparkplug is exposed it isn't a problem, but the phazer and other 4 strokes don't make that very easy. If I were taking my sled into the bush and COUNTING on it for a return trip, I would probably take the time to feed a tiny tube to the throttle bodies so I could hook it to the can and give it a squirt while turning the engine over.
In any event, this is what the stuff is made for and it works very well. Admittedly you can mess up an engine and the 35 year mechanic probably has gotten lots of work from just that. But used carefully when vaporization of the fuel is the only reason for poor start, it does a fine job.
2) I am curious as heck as to the very low octain fuel in Alaska. I know my bro lives in Denver and he has some lower octain fuel everyone uses there because it is 5000 feet above sea level, but at sea level in Alaska, I don't get it. Is this because the octane falls the longer it sets around so they have to post the eventual octane level, or is it by design and if so, then how come you don't have way more troubles with cars, trucks and older carbed cars that could not run very well on such low octane gas. I had a GM product that used to ping like a son of a gun when I used anything less than 87 octane.
So what gives.
Jack_Shaft
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Can't see why these twins wouldn't start as well as the 120/140/150FI engines. I have seen all three of these engines start at -45*C without issue.
Thrusted Vector
Expert
Did you change the plugs yet?
Swiss Sledder
TY 4 Stroke God
Something just isn't right because I agree with Jack Shaft that all the other Yamaha 4-strokes have no problems starting at temperatures much colder than you are currently experiencing. Have you taken it back to the dealer yet and asked for assistance?
Swiss Sledder
TY 4 Stroke God
As painful is it may be, I think it is the best course of action to take the sled to your dealer.
The unfortunate thing in all this is that the lack of snow in most areas means other Phazer owners have not had a chance to ride their sleds and for Yamaha to see if this is an isolated problem with just your sled, or potentially a problem with the model. Either way, this is why it is a good thing to take your Phazer to the dealer where the problem can be logged with Yamaha.
The unfortunate thing in all this is that the lack of snow in most areas means other Phazer owners have not had a chance to ride their sleds and for Yamaha to see if this is an isolated problem with just your sled, or potentially a problem with the model. Either way, this is why it is a good thing to take your Phazer to the dealer where the problem can be logged with Yamaha.
Thrusted Vector
Expert
Well I had problem with a Phazer having a hard time starting,because when it was new and there was no snow yet everybody had to start it and listen to it ,well because the plugs would never get to proper temp before shutting it down,they became fuel fouled and they didn't work as well.Changed the plugs and never had another problem.
Jack_Shaft
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
If your dealer has his game together, he should loan you a sled for a couple of days while he is "testing" your Venture, especially where you use your sled as your primary mode of transportation.
Even if he hands you the keys to an '89 Inviter, it beats snowshoes.
Even if he hands you the keys to an '89 Inviter, it beats snowshoes.
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try lower weight motor oil if you are not useing 0w30 (or similar) already.
bro had a car that did the same thing. -15c with 10w30=nostart. put 5w30 in -20c= nostart. put 0w30 in it and he could get it started at -40c. granted you had to hold it wot before you cranked motor over but once it caught it was fine. frickin topaz
bro had a car that did the same thing. -15c with 10w30=nostart. put 5w30 in -20c= nostart. put 0w30 in it and he could get it started at -40c. granted you had to hold it wot before you cranked motor over but once it caught it was fine. frickin topaz
powder muncher
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
They are just hard starting period not great! I usually get my girlfriends started if I hold the throttle just slightly open until it fires keep cranking until it runs, it just huffs and puffs a few times at first. The coldest I have started it at was- 15 and it is very lazy at that temp, needs a couple tries to get going time for Yamaha to deal with it.
phazerfly
Extreme
Sorry to hear about your starting problems Gypsy, I've started mine at
-30C and it fired right up, you should definately take it to your dealer cuz there has to be something wrong with it. I don't do anything special, its got 0w30 oil in it and premium fuel in the tank. On a normal day it cranks about 4-6 seconds, and when it was -30 it took two tries of about 4 seconds. It caught the firs time and died, so I turned off the key turned it back on cycled the fuel pump and it took right off. Sure hope your dealer can get this corrected for you.
-30C and it fired right up, you should definately take it to your dealer cuz there has to be something wrong with it. I don't do anything special, its got 0w30 oil in it and premium fuel in the tank. On a normal day it cranks about 4-6 seconds, and when it was -30 it took two tries of about 4 seconds. It caught the firs time and died, so I turned off the key turned it back on cycled the fuel pump and it took right off. Sure hope your dealer can get this corrected for you.
Thrusted Vector
Expert
Gypsy,get him to change the plugs.
smokeless1
Pro
Good luck getting him to change the plugs, but what you describe happened on two RX-1's with low miles and changing the plugs made immediate diff.
The other thing I found is that if you have cranked it for awhile, the battery gets a bit lower and I found my RX-1's would not start on low battery, even tho it cranked over fine. Put a charger on the sled when it is cold and see if this improves the starting. But to eliminate the fouled plugs you are going to have to change them out. On the Rx-1 I found the irridum plugs didn't foul like the stock plugs did. Not sure why.
So there are two things to check.
It's a sucky dealer who tells you he is going to charge you to find issues of the sled that won't start and you depend on it. Might be time to find a better dealer even if you have to fly a few thousand miles....
The other thing I found is that if you have cranked it for awhile, the battery gets a bit lower and I found my RX-1's would not start on low battery, even tho it cranked over fine. Put a charger on the sled when it is cold and see if this improves the starting. But to eliminate the fouled plugs you are going to have to change them out. On the Rx-1 I found the irridum plugs didn't foul like the stock plugs did. Not sure why.
So there are two things to check.
It's a sucky dealer who tells you he is going to charge you to find issues of the sled that won't start and you depend on it. Might be time to find a better dealer even if you have to fly a few thousand miles....
phazerfly
Extreme
Don't take that from your dealer Gypsy, it's his responsibilty to make sure it starts and runs. You depend on it, and it is an issue with yours, there are 3 FX's in my crew and all of them have started at -30c, and actuall with very little fight to. Make the dealer deal with it, or send him 200 miles into the bush with it when its nice and cold. When it doesn't go I'm sure they'll be more willing to help you out. Good luck. 
Mtn-Track
Extreme
Gypsy;
Two guys here have it close, but not 100% right. It's not the fuel. Dump the oil and start over with a synthetic 0W-30. Keep in mind that these things won't start until they have ample oil pressure. If it helps, I am a turbine and piston pilot that used to live in Soldotna, AK, and spent many day's on the north slope. Give it a shot, as I think you are finding the lower limits of your oil and possibly your oil pressure sensor.
Two guys here have it close, but not 100% right. It's not the fuel. Dump the oil and start over with a synthetic 0W-30. Keep in mind that these things won't start until they have ample oil pressure. If it helps, I am a turbine and piston pilot that used to live in Soldotna, AK, and spent many day's on the north slope. Give it a shot, as I think you are finding the lower limits of your oil and possibly your oil pressure sensor.
