rfabro
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
sniperviper said:
Does the factory manual have this procedure?
Yellowknife
TY 4 Stroke Master
Yeah, at that temp, it should fire up, no doubt. Your dealer is clueless.
Yellowknife
TY 4 Stroke Master
Oh man, that first video says it all. It's like listening to a video game. You should fight for your money back. That's unacceptable.
Hey wait, your temp above says -17 F (-22 C)....-17 F is actually -27 C.
But being plugged in and whatever, there's no reason it shouldn't have started.
Hey wait, your temp above says -17 F (-22 C)....-17 F is actually -27 C.
But being plugged in and whatever, there's no reason it shouldn't have started.
sniperviper
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
GypsyRoots said:
Maybe yamaha scandinavia got it right then with the adjustment on the CO(rithcher) to make it a better starter in very cold conditions.
Irondoghalf
Veteran
I don't see where the oil tank pad heater is of any help in the initial start in the cold engine mode. It will help getting the warmer/thinner oil to the motor after in starts, but is of no use initially.
The coolant circ heater will help immensely.
Can you even get to any portion of the engine itself through the covers? I was thinking for Gypsy who wants to go camping out in the sticks and needs to heat the engine without having to bring a generator. If one could get to the top of the motor, or the exhaust manifold perhaps, take a couple gallon sized Freezer Ziploc bags, fill them with water, and put them in a boiling pot of water for several minutes. Then place them on major engine parts and cover them up with a beaver hat or something of the like. The heat transfer would be rapid and may help start the engine. Worth a try, try it at home first?
When your done, pour the water out, fold them up and put them away for the next time.
The coolant circ heater will help immensely.
Can you even get to any portion of the engine itself through the covers? I was thinking for Gypsy who wants to go camping out in the sticks and needs to heat the engine without having to bring a generator. If one could get to the top of the motor, or the exhaust manifold perhaps, take a couple gallon sized Freezer Ziploc bags, fill them with water, and put them in a boiling pot of water for several minutes. Then place them on major engine parts and cover them up with a beaver hat or something of the like. The heat transfer would be rapid and may help start the engine. Worth a try, try it at home first?
When your done, pour the water out, fold them up and put them away for the next time.
Yellowknife
TY 4 Stroke Master
its stupid cause the dealer tells him you can't put coolant heaters on these motors..wrong...but even at -27 it should start without any heat at all, however I haven't been able to test that yet, its been either -22 or -30 thus far, or colder.
Yellowknife
TY 4 Stroke Master
those cold start auto starters are interesting. I'd like one for my truck. it's a option if you can get one in there for sure...at least for when you're on the land.
I can't believe he says Yamaha does not recommend installing the circ heater. Every unit in Yellowknife has one in it, I'm talking dozens of them. I think he doesn't know what he's talking about.
If we couldn't get heaters, I would NOT have purchased this sled, and I put that heater to the test at -40 degrees a couple weeks ago and it passed. The heater is a necessity for us!
I can't believe he says Yamaha does not recommend installing the circ heater. Every unit in Yellowknife has one in it, I'm talking dozens of them. I think he doesn't know what he's talking about.
If we couldn't get heaters, I would NOT have purchased this sled, and I put that heater to the test at -40 degrees a couple weeks ago and it passed. The heater is a necessity for us!
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
That was a pretty sad set of videos to watch. I can't believe the sled by design should have that much trouble starting at -27°C.
Around here we fairly regularly see -30°C and my cars, truck, and my older sleds are parked outside (yep I park my current sleds in my garage attached to the house with the remote garage door opener; my wife's car is in the garage too - vehicle hierarchy you know...). None of my vehicles even have a block heater and I've never had any trouble starting any of them.
There's got to be something slightly out of whack with your sled that's screwing up its ability to start in the cold. I agree with you that it sounds like its not getting enough fuel. If there was too much fuel it would have made the "classic" way to much fuel startup (I can't think of how to describe it in words...). Richening up the CO settings might be the ticket to get it going. The other unlikely possibility is the mixture could be right but the spark isn't able to ignite it (not enough compression due to the decompression system, dirty plugs or weak spark). You might want to give it a small shot of starting fluid the next time its trying to go. This should answer the question if its not enough fuel or not.
(The reason I say its unlikely spark is after cranking that long you would expect enough fuel to have condensed inside the combustion chamber for it to start with the classic too much fuel startup.)
If my sled or vehicles won't start at least down to -35°C I wouldn't want it. We sometimes go up to our cottage in the winter and its common for there to be no electricity due to fallen trees, etc. It would be a bad situation to have a vehicle that wouldn't start in the morning up there (5 mile hike to the nearest country road and about 25 miles to the nearest town).
Around here we fairly regularly see -30°C and my cars, truck, and my older sleds are parked outside (yep I park my current sleds in my garage attached to the house with the remote garage door opener; my wife's car is in the garage too - vehicle hierarchy you know...). None of my vehicles even have a block heater and I've never had any trouble starting any of them.
There's got to be something slightly out of whack with your sled that's screwing up its ability to start in the cold. I agree with you that it sounds like its not getting enough fuel. If there was too much fuel it would have made the "classic" way to much fuel startup (I can't think of how to describe it in words...). Richening up the CO settings might be the ticket to get it going. The other unlikely possibility is the mixture could be right but the spark isn't able to ignite it (not enough compression due to the decompression system, dirty plugs or weak spark). You might want to give it a small shot of starting fluid the next time its trying to go. This should answer the question if its not enough fuel or not.
(The reason I say its unlikely spark is after cranking that long you would expect enough fuel to have condensed inside the combustion chamber for it to start with the classic too much fuel startup.)
If my sled or vehicles won't start at least down to -35°C I wouldn't want it. We sometimes go up to our cottage in the winter and its common for there to be no electricity due to fallen trees, etc. It would be a bad situation to have a vehicle that wouldn't start in the morning up there (5 mile hike to the nearest country road and about 25 miles to the nearest town).
SharkAttak
TY 4 Stroke God
last week -22f took about 20 seconds but fired right up
starting
Have you thought of installing a primer system like the one Ski Doo used extensively in the 90's on its reed valved engines? It should be quite simple to do and the ECM should take over and keep the sled running as soon as the motor lights up. I do like the idea of the automatic starting but it may a little bit expensive. Besides, it doesn't get to the bottom of the problem. You think the problem is fuel starvation. Installing a primer will give you the answer.
Have you thought of installing a primer system like the one Ski Doo used extensively in the 90's on its reed valved engines? It should be quite simple to do and the ECM should take over and keep the sled running as soon as the motor lights up. I do like the idea of the automatic starting but it may a little bit expensive. Besides, it doesn't get to the bottom of the problem. You think the problem is fuel starvation. Installing a primer will give you the answer.
gsxr
TY 4 Stroke Master
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gsxr said:
rfabro
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Congrats, Gypsy! Yami is finally taking your dealer in the right direction. Too bad it took Yami assuming the tab before he even wanted to help you. I hope this is the beginning of the end for your sled troubles. It seems you gotta play politics with this guy, maybe asking him to ask Yami about your troubles, instead of just expecting him to deal with it like any good dealer, cause there's no charge for a phone call!
Irondoghalf
Veteran
When you get a chance to see your dealer, could you have him point out just what/where/how that EFI adjustablility took place? No doubt others on here would like to know how to do that. I rode EFI Cats for years, and they had no ajustablility to enrichen for cold start, although quite honestly, the 2 strokes did not need any. I could start mine at any temperature I found here anytime. Had a couple -35 days where the rope hardly pulled out of the recoil, but just slowly pulling it through (8-10 times) until it freed up enough to get a hard pull cylce, the sled would start, always, in 3 pulls.
One thing about the Cat EFI, works flawlessly. They have over 12 years experience in snowmobile EFI systems, and they have it down pat.
One thing about the Cat EFI, works flawlessly. They have over 12 years experience in snowmobile EFI systems, and they have it down pat.
rfabro
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Yeah, sniperviper said you just have to ground a wire to put it in program mode. Let's hope he finds the procedure!
phazerfly
Extreme
These are the instructions on how to play with your EFI settings. Instructions are for doing an apex, but same steps apply for the Phazer.
1) Install a wire or paperclip in the pale green wire in the connector on the right side. Its a male connector only with no mate usually behind the battery, or oil tank. Wire only needs to be grounded.
2)Enter Diagnostic mode:
-Key and kill sw off, press and hold both "select and reset" and then power up the gauge (key and kill on)
*I leave key on and just use the kill switch.
-Wait 8 seconds and the guage will go blank except for "DI" in the display
-Press select to toggle between "DI" and "CO", select "CO"
*if there is no selection recheck your ground
-press and hold both "select and reset" 3 seconds
-gauge will display "C:01" this is were you select which cylinder you want to adjust
-press and hold "select and reset" 3 seconds and a number will appear in the odometer section,(will be 0)
-press select to increase the number (richer), "reset" to decrease the number (leaner)
*adjust it to read 10 for richer, -10 will be leaner
-Press both select and reset and chose C:02 and adjust the same as above, you must do this for each cylinder. The engine will run normally in CO mode so you can change settings with the engine running or on the trail. To reset simply turn off key or kill switch and the guage will return to normal.
1) Install a wire or paperclip in the pale green wire in the connector on the right side. Its a male connector only with no mate usually behind the battery, or oil tank. Wire only needs to be grounded.
2)Enter Diagnostic mode:
-Key and kill sw off, press and hold both "select and reset" and then power up the gauge (key and kill on)
*I leave key on and just use the kill switch.
-Wait 8 seconds and the guage will go blank except for "DI" in the display
-Press select to toggle between "DI" and "CO", select "CO"
*if there is no selection recheck your ground
-press and hold both "select and reset" 3 seconds
-gauge will display "C:01" this is were you select which cylinder you want to adjust
-press and hold "select and reset" 3 seconds and a number will appear in the odometer section,(will be 0)
-press select to increase the number (richer), "reset" to decrease the number (leaner)
*adjust it to read 10 for richer, -10 will be leaner
-Press both select and reset and chose C:02 and adjust the same as above, you must do this for each cylinder. The engine will run normally in CO mode so you can change settings with the engine running or on the trail. To reset simply turn off key or kill switch and the guage will return to normal.
