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Apex Engine Gone...rebuilt and rebuilding again ughhhh!


mbarryracing said:
Wayne,
Once you detonated and melted that top land away, the top ring beat itself back and forth wearing the groove and finally broke into little chunks that worked past the burned away ring land and into your combustion chamber (wacking your plug electrode) and finally out the exhaust. That ring is in your muffler now.
I'd be looking real close at your valves in that cylinder, too. Might be dinged up at the seats and not seal so good.
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Wayne, Maybe next time you'll listen to me. ;)!

Too bad, i'm heading back to OF (Glenmore) this weekend and was looking for some riding buddies.
 
Mauri,

Thanks for reminding me now....don't rub it in...P.S. you are the first guy i've ever seen quote himself on the forum...lol :o|

Kinger,

To be fair, there were three of us wrenching on it and all of the tools were still out and ready to go.
 
Dont you need to hone the block after replacing pistons and rings? Thought it was mandatory.

One other question for engine guru's when you remove a piston and all rings from that cylinder and you replace the same piston and same rings, isnt that just the same as putting different rings in terms of sealing ability? ie if you rotate the rings on assembly that were seated 30 degrees lets say wouldn't they leak or burn a little oil as well?
 
Kinger,
No that is not the case for honing unless your replacing the rings with new.
ALL 4 stroke rings rotate randomly under use on the piston by design, so all that matters is that the gaps don't align when you reinstall (initial oil path) They are not pinned in place like is required on a 2-stroke so that the gaps won't snag a port...
As long as you put the same rings back in the same order in the same cylinder, and the bore is not damaged and the rings aren't pitted or damaged, you'll be fine for a stock engine.

Wayne's issues lie with the abused valves.
 
Thanks for the info and forgive me for more dumb questions.

If the rings are rotating around and they are the same exact dimensions of the rings your replacing (say 03 to 05 rings for example) why is the hone neccessary for different rings? What physically wears?

I was always under the assumption that the rings were static and they got little grooves cut in to them from the cylinder wall and when new ones were put in the cylinder needed a hone to smooth out all the grooves or compression and oil would come in between those grooves. Thanks a lot I love engines!
 
The rings rotate, this prevents wearing in one spot. Your cylinder head valves also rotate for the same reason... GM actually has needle bearings under the valve springs on their big block engines to promote this.

Actually the cylinder wall cross hatch is what wears in. You want the new rings to "shape" and machine the cylinder hone cross hatch and seat themselves... The rings are harder than the cylinder and won't seat if the cylinder wall is GLAZED, ball honing removed the glaze.

But i can't dispute that it is necessary on low mile cylinders because we have picked up a few HP on racing engines by sticking new rings into a newly "broken in" bore on methanol 2-strokes and also big block V8 dirt track engines. Don't know exactly why, all I know is it was faster and dynos don't lie.
Keep in mind that the cylinders were not glazed yet from mega miles, either.
 
mbarryracing said:
The rings rotate, this prevents wearing in one spot. Your cylinder head valves also rotate for the same reason... GM actually has needle bearings under the valve springs on their big block engines to promote this.

Actually the cylinder wall cross hatch is what wears in. You want the new rings to "shape" and machine the cylinder hone cross hatch and seat themselves... The rings are harder than the cylinder and won't seat if the cylinder wall is GLAZED, ball honing removed the glaze.

But i can't dispute that it is necessary on low mile cylinders because we have picked up a few HP on racing engines by sticking new rings into a newly "broken in" bore on methanol 2-strokes and also big block V8 dirt track engines. Don't know exactly why, all I know is it was faster and dynos don't lie.
Keep in mind that the cylinders were not glazed yet from mega miles, either.
Click to expand...

Another question while we're at it. When is a cylinder glazed?
I assume it is when the cross hatching in the cylinder is starting to disappear.
 
stoutner said:
Bad news for me. I've had various problems with my sled so finally got around to compression testing it. Results are not good.

Cyl #1 170 lbs Cyl #2 160 lbs Cyl #3 15 Lbs Cyl #4 170 lbs

Also, when I pulled that plug, the ground strap was smashed into the electrode. The engine believe it or not seems to run really good and quiet even though it is obviously running on 3 cylinders.

Off hand I'm guessing broken ring, broken valve or something worse. I'm running a fully stock motor on 2006 Apex.

Any guesses at what might be gone? Broken Valve maybe???

Any suggestions on the easiest way to pull the motor would be much appreciated.

Thanks, Wayne Stoutner
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sorry to hear about you misfortune, no fun having those issues.
I have know idea what you have planed but there is a complete 06 apex motor on ebay #270215729127 less than 200 miles on it I know it has been listed before and cant get a $3,500 bid its out of cedarville MI and there is 4 days left. just a thought, Good Luck!!!
 
If I could find a motor for $1000 I'd consider it. I probably could get a whole 2006 Apex for less than $5000. I think I'm just gonna fix it, put a couple hundred more miles on it and trade it in.
 
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