attack vrs apex?? is it true attack is faster

[dirkdiggler]

So Dirk this means that if I custom build a sled with a 250 inch track I do not have any more ratating mass than a 121 and I will have the same top speed?

[/quote]


If the track is a 250 inch ripsaw. Go lookup "rotating Mass" on wikapedea. It will give you the math behind the equation.

 

[rxwhopper]

ttt

 

[ROCKERDAN]

there is only 1 reason the attacks work well....23 gear and more track at holeshot is why...

most apex guys have gone to a 23 top gear,this will make your gearing same as attack...then when you get to speed,you will have LESS rotating mass and outrun the attack(all things being equal)....attacks are approx 20lbs heavier with more rotating mass.

as for clutching,I wouldnt run anything other then PROLINE or Dalton products......Dalton DPYRs are as good as it gets in a flyweight...and helixs are second to none....do a search for my ramair kit...also,you can go to a 1 inch track if you want true radar sled....

see my sig for other things which will make you walk any attack,or MACH for that matter...Mines been doing it all winter..very happy with my RTX.

also,another awesome KIT is from FIX powersports.....they take a slightly different approach with their clutch kit,but Ill tell you now...its works!....If your going to gear it,call FIX first...as their kit includes the 23 gear!

Dan

Your statement about less rotating mass is incorrect. The only mass that affects you from your track is the piece that is in contract with your drivers. It's not like a break rotor or a crank that is solid mass that is fixed. As the mass of the track comes off the drivers it no long affects it. So a 121,136, 144 and up will all have the same rotating mass as long as you use the same type of track just as Yamaha does with the apex and the attack.

Now if one sled is studded and the other isn't there would be less mass on the non studded track.

the only way to truly reduce the mass is to use a thinner or narrower track.


Think about it this way. What drives the track? The Drivers do. The only portion of the track that puts a load on the drivers as they turn is the portion of the track that is on the driver itself. The only way to reduce that mass is to A change the Thickness B Or width.

If you have a 136 ripsaw and a 121 Ripsaw and you cut a equal length piece out it both pieces will weight about the same.

This information came from a Conversation a friend had with Glenn Hall. Glenn is one of the top racers in the Country.

Not sure exactly what you mean here but....If you think a 136 can be spun with same amt of HP as a 121 all else being equal,then you are wrong.

long track=MORE WEIGHT=MORE rotating mass,just as i said in my post...to turn more weight it takes more HP..common logic.

Dan

 

[dirkdiggler]

there is only 1 reason the attacks work well....23 gear and more track at holeshot is why...

most apex guys have gone to a 23 top gear,this will make your gearing same as attack...then when you get to speed,you will have LESS rotating mass and outrun the attack(all things being equal)....attacks are approx 20lbs heavier with more rotating mass.

as for clutching,I wouldnt run anything other then PROLINE or Dalton products......Dalton DPYRs are as good as it gets in a flyweight...and helixs are second to none....do a search for my ramair kit...also,you can go to a 1 inch track if you want true radar sled....

see my sig for other things which will make you walk any attack,or MACH for that matter...Mines been doing it all winter..very happy with my RTX.

also,another awesome KIT is from FIX powersports.....they take a slightly different approach with their clutch kit,but Ill tell you now...its works!....If your going to gear it,call FIX first...as their kit includes the 23 gear!

Dan

Your statement about less rotating mass is incorrect. The only mass that affects you from your track is the piece that is in contract with your drivers. It's not like a break rotor or a crank that is solid mass that is fixed. As the mass of the track comes off the drivers it no long affects it. So a 121,136, 144 and up will all have the same rotating mass as long as you use the same type of track just as Yamaha does with the apex and the attack.

Now if one sled is studded and the other isn't there would be less mass on the non studded track.

the only way to truly reduce the mass is to use a thinner or narrower track.


Think about it this way. What drives the track? The Drivers do. The only portion of the track that puts a load on the drivers as they turn is the portion of the track that is on the driver itself. The only way to reduce that mass is to A change the Thickness B Or width.

If you have a 136 ripsaw and a 121 Ripsaw and you cut a equal length piece out it both pieces will weight about the same.

This information came from a Conversation a friend had with Glenn Hall. Glenn is one of the top racers in the Country.

Not sure exactly what you mean here but....If you think a 136 can be spun with same amt of HP as a 121 all else being equal,then you are wrong.

long track=MORE WEIGHT=MORE rotating mass,just as i said in my post...to turn more weight it takes more HP..common logic.

Dan

Not going to get into a lengthy discussion about this but if you where right then the Attacks would be appreciably slower with a track that is 5 pounds heavier compared to a 121 apex. 5 pounds rotating mass is equal to 35 total pounds. That would put a huge load on the Drivers and rear idler wheels. But somehow the attacks seem to run the same or better MPH in radar runs.


Look at these results. With the exception of radar run preped sleds the apexs and attacks run from 114 to 118.


http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... highlight=

 

[RED800]

the attacks are quicker becuz of the 23 top gear and the bigger track,now u wanna go top end then the apex's will fly right by,i do the same thing with my brothers attack,i cannot touch it in a short distance unless we leave the line at the same time"which never happens".....this year i went to the 23t gear but have done nothing else to my rtx,his attack has studs and clutch kit,and we have raced many times,i have come to this conclusion,his attack being studded and clutched and my rtx stock with 23t gear, if i had studs i do not think his attack would beat me,next year my rtx is getting stretched to a 128 which i think would be perfect for the apex's...

 

[CaptianC]

I can help squash it, there both "arm socket rippen friggen fast".

 

[rxwhopper]

drive a turbo, youl think they are slow

 

[dirkdiggler]

the attacks are quicker becuz of the 23 top gear and the bigger track,now u wanna go top end then the apex's will fly right by,i do the same thing with my brothers attack,i cannot touch it in a short distance unless we leave the line at the same time"which never happens".....this year i went to the 23t gear but have done nothing else to my rtx,his attack has studs and clutch kit,and we have raced many times,i have come to this conclusion,his attack being studded and clutched and my rtx stock with 23t gear, if i had studs i do not think his attack would beat me,next year my rtx is getting stretched to a 128 which i think would be perfect for the apex's...

I never had an apex fly by my attack EVER. The number I posted don't lie.

 

[Tork]

In theory yes an Attak should be slower, but the increased traction offsets (and in some conditions betters) that.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

the attacks are quicker becuz of the 23 top gear and the bigger track,now u wanna go top end then the apex's will fly right by,i do the same thing with my brothers attack,i cannot touch it in a short distance unless we leave the line at the same time"which never happens".....this year i went to the 23t gear but have done nothing else to my rtx,his attack has studs and clutch kit,and we have raced many times,i have come to this conclusion,his attack being studded and clutched and my rtx stock with 23t gear, if i had studs i do not think his attack would beat me,next year my rtx is getting stretched to a 128 which i think would be perfect for the apex's...

I never had an apex fly by my attack EVER. The number I posted don't lie.

Dirk...you got an attack?...its fast eh?...bring it on up here....I got 2 apexs that will walk all over it...hehe.

If i added a HEAVIER track to my sled,and stretched it,you think it would go faster??...come on,use your head bud...


Dan

 

[ProstockBenji]

Dan , In a radar run no doubt the shorter track will out MPH the long track , but accelerating hard (dragracing) the longer tracks have proved to e.t faster and more consistant . I think you guys are really talking about 2 different things !!!! when you say faster do you mean MPH or Accelleration ?

Benji

 

[justin gallant]

Do a search for the air box modification, as well as the CR10 Ek spark plugs. If you want to make it quicker, put it a clutch kit. There are many brands to choose from. Ulmer is popular here, I have a Bender (and love it), Hauck is another...
Those are 3 things I would do first, and you should be able to get that stuff done for about 400 bucks (u.s.)

The cr10 ek plugs really work better the the ngk Yamaha called for?

 

[steiner]

The plugs may work better but its not a "seat of your pants" difference in power.

 

[alswagg2]

Faster is higher mph. Quicker is less elapsed time.