Be part of the solution! Yamaha's future

[Bamboo]

Hey guys,
My apologies for not making it clear who I am or what I do when I posted the survey. A little unprofessional, for sure. As some have noted in this thread, my name is Danny Brault and I work in the Marketing Dept. at Yamaha Motor Canada.

I know many will disagree but believe me: we are listening and we want to build products that better cater to everyone who loves motorsports (or is thinking about joining the club). Unfortunately, these things do take time and money. We're trying.

Thanks for taking the time to share your comments and fill out the survey!

Hey Alatalo he works in MARKETING. My guess he also does not make the decision to make the 300lb 500hp mountain sled. AC is selling right now because they are new. Just like the Poo pro did 2 years ago. Give the guy a break he's just a messenger.

 

[Alatalo]

Hey Alatalo he works in MARKETING. My guess he also does not make the decision to make the 300lb 500hp mountain sled. AC is selling right now because they are new. Just like the Poo pro did 2 years ago. Give the guy a break he's just a messenger.

As I said, this is nothing personal and I am sorry if my message comes out a bit harsh, but I do not know any other way to express myself regarding this topic. When it comes to Yamaha snowmobiles, I have kind of had enough of surveys that does not touch the real problem. The reason for the currently low sales has got absolutely nothing to do with the marketing or anything related to whether the customer can find the facts he is looking for on the website or in the brochure. The marketing people are doing their job perfectly well...!
In my opinion, this is all about the pure and simple technical facts - AC and Polaris are offering the lightweight, responsive and agile mountain sleds that people are looking for. This is the real reason why AC and Polaris are selling mountain sleds right now and Yamaha are not. At least around my place.

 

[Sled Dog]

Do you think Yamaha should go back to a two stroke plant to build a light weight mountain sled?

 

[sgilbert]

wow, you guys get pretty worked up. this is probably a 12 year old kid tired of playing video games, looking to get a rise. mission accomplished

 

[Sled Dog]

My question is legit if Yamaha won't build a light 4 stroke mountain sled then they should build a light nimble two stroke mountain sled. Simply because they are not building a mountain sled for Canada anymore.

 

[yamahas]

wow, you guys get pretty worked up. this is probably a 12 year old kid tired of playing video games, looking to get a rise. mission accomplished

I don't think so, http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... highlight= he introduces himself back in December.

Sled dog brought up a very good point. I think it would be a good move on Yamaha's part but I think Yamaha might look at this as a step backwards? They have been working on 4 strokes, just celebrated the 10 model years of going 4 stroke (except for the Bravo but it is now gone also, well at least in Canada) and then turn around and build another 2 stroke. By making a commitment to the 4 stroke world then building a 2 stroke may look like they don't have faith in their own sleds?

I would love to see Yamaha come out with a light weight 2 stroke, then all the Doo guys would have is make fun of our "Dream-o-meters".

 

[Riceburner]

then all the Doo guys would have is make fun of our "Dream-o-meters".

Too late. Yammie did away with the dream-meter in 2011. More accurate than Doo's now. Almost spot on actually.

I kind of miss it actually.

 

[Sled Dog]

I think our dream o meters are just that because they are the same basic generic system put on all the sleds no matter the gearing. They should be changing the little gear at the end of the drive shaft to match your gearing so it reads correctly. Or they may need to change the electronics in the speedo to match gearing. That all cost money and this is the cheapest way to put a speedometer on your sled no matter how inaccurate it may be.

 

[Alatalo]

Do you think Yamaha should go back to a two stroke plant to build a light weight mountain sled?

My question is legit if Yamaha won't build a light 4 stroke mountain sled then they should build a light nimble two stroke mountain sled. Simply because they are not building a mountain sled for Canada anymore.

I am not sure that the two stroke engine is the answer. I am sorry if I sound like a broken record, but again please look at the numbers of the new Arctic Cats. Their turbo four stroker is around 25 kilograms heavier than the FX Nytro engine, still the total weight of two comparable sleds is almost identical. Same thing with the Doo 1200. I do not remember the exact weight of this lump, but I do remember that it is quite a lot heavier than the FX Nytro engine. Still, the total weight of their comparable sleds is lower than the FX Nytros...This tells me only one thing - the american brands are building lighter chassis than Yamaha, still there is absolutely no proof that they have got more durability problems. Or, put it this way - Yamaha are giving the four stroke engines a heavyweight reputation because of the chassis they are delivered in...

My feeling is sometimes that Yamaha is right in the middle of dropping the ball on the whole four stroke snowmobile thing - because of the chassis. The introduction went quite smooth because even though there was additional weight, most of us accepted that. Because we wanted a four stroke engine and because we were hoping for and dreaming about future weight reductions. But we are now nine years past the first RX-1, six years past the fuel injected and updated Apex and four years past the first FX Nytro. Still, the lightweight chassis generation that we are dreaming about seems to never show up...And I am not at all sure that the synthetic lightweight feel created by adding weight with power steering is the answer. At least not for the mountain business...

 

[Ike]

Alatalo, I´m 100% with you. Trail riders with the powersteering might not notice the weight, but when in deep snow theese things are heavy!

All the weight seems to be in the chassis. I know the suspensions would last better if the weight was reduced...

We can hope that this issue will be solved. But the snowmobile division is so small in terms of Yamaha, that I dont take my hopes too up + consevative politics about developing theese things...

Ike

 

[Bamboo]

Do you think Yamaha should go back to a two stroke plant to build a light weight mountain sled?

My question is legit if Yamaha won't build a light 4 stroke mountain sled then they should build a light nimble two stroke mountain sled. Simply because they are not building a mountain sled for Canada anymore.

I am not sure that the two stroke engine is the answer. I am sorry if I sound like a broken record, but again please look at the numbers of the new Arctic Cats. Their turbo four stroker is around 25 kilograms heavier than the FX Nytro engine, still the total weight of two comparable sleds is almost identical. Same thing with the Doo 1200. I do not remember the exact weight of this lump, but I do remember that it is quite a lot heavier than the FX Nytro engine. Still, the total weight of their comparable sleds is lower than the FX Nytros...This tells me only one thing - the american brands are building lighter chassis than Yamaha, still there is absolutely no proof that they have got more durability problems. Or, put it this way - Yamaha are giving the four stroke engines a heavyweight reputation because of the chassis they are delivered in...

My feeling is sometimes that Yamaha is right in the middle of dropping the ball on the whole four stroke snowmobile thing - because of the chassis. The introduction went quite smooth because even though there was additional weight, most of us accepted that. Because we wanted a four stroke engine and because we were hoping for and dreaming about future weight reductions. But we are now nine years past the first RX-1, six years past the fuel injected and updated Apex and four years past the first FX Nytro. Still, the lightweight chassis generation that we are dreaming about seems to never show up...And I am not at all sure that the synthetic lightweight feel created by adding weight with power steering is the answer. At least not for the mountain business...

Here is some info for you. Now keep in mind they are "estimates" from Doo and Cat

Since Doo does not have a factory 4s mnt sled. I did a bit of simple math to estimate a 1200 summit. The mxzx 1200 is 509 dry. The difference in weights of a 800 etch mxzx and 1200 mxzx is 26 lbs so lets add that to the 509, that gives us 535 dry.
The Cat t1100 mnt is 562 dry and the 1100 mnt is 524 dry. Now lets start adding fluids to get a full wet ready to ride weight.

My guess is most tanks are 10 gal and weigh in at 65 to 70 lbs. No idea how much antifreeze weighs or shock oils gear oils etc. but I'm going to conservatively say add another 10 lbs.

Doo 1200 summit 535 dry + 70 fuel + 10 other fluids = 615 wet
Cat 1100 mtn 524 dry +70 fuel + 10 other fluids = 604 wet
Nytro mtx 630(as posted on here TY, cant seem to find the link now)

To me it looks like Yamaha is doing ok in the weight dept. Looks like to me that all the brands are "heavy" when in 4s

Now all we need to do is wait and see what happens in 2015 when the EPA's next tighter regulations come in. I personally think the 2s are done.

 

[AKrider]

I filled it out weeks ago but I don't hold out a lot of hope that anything is going to change.

Here's an idea, maybe update the Nytro so it actually handles at least half as good as the competition? You could ummm... take the geometry off the YFZ450 sport quad, adapt it to the Nytro subframe and I bet it would improve the stock Nytro's sh!tty handling by 100%. It's not rocket science. The other three OEM's don't seem to have handling problems and neither Polaris or Ski-doo has been building a-arm front suspensions for as long as Yamaha. I would have thought that with Yamaha building sport quads with a-arms since 1986, there would be some inkling of how to design and manufacture a decent front end.