Can it take a beating

[jedwards89]

I am sure this question has come up but my biggest concern is can this new chassie take a beating on a saturday afternoon of running tug hill with 3 + moguls day in and day out? I have a nytro RTX SE and I have to say the sled had taken anything I could give it without any issues. My biggest problem with my Nytro is that riding it takes a bit more work these days than I really want. Heavy steering and the weight is a bit too front heavy making the day feel a bit longer than it really is. By the sounds of it, the new chassis has taken care of those issues I have had with the Nytro. Maybe this is more of a suspension issue...The suspension on that Nytro was meant for big bump riding, with this new suspension hold up? I guess I am in up in the air about it. I love my nytro but want something that will be a bit easier on the soulders and a bit easier to ride in the tight and twisties. Curious to hear thoughts about those who have the Procross chassis particularly with he 1100 or the 1100 Turbo who are a bit more of an aggressive trail rider. Unfortunately I will not get the opportunity to get to Snodeo to test ride one.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

[yox185]

My biggest problem with my Nytro is that riding it takes a bit more work these days than I really want. Heavy steering and the weight is a bit too front heavy making the day feel a bit longer than it really is. By the sounds of it, the new chassis has taken care of those issues I have had with the Nytro. Maybe this is more of a suspension issue...The suspension on that Nytro was meant for big bump riding, with this new suspension hold up? I guess I am in up in the air about it. I love my nytro but want something that will be a bit easier on the soulders and a bit easier to ride in the tight and twisties.

You read my mind. Only for me it's my elbows. Due for cortisone shots when the snow is gone. I will be at Snodeo, gotta try it.

 

[jedwards89]

I hear ya, One shoulder has been repaired for me and the other side I broke my colar bone in three different spots. Wish I could be there for the Snodeo. I will be very curious to hear your thoughts!! Regardless the NYTRO is up for sale, I will either be on a Viper next year or a 600 XRS.

 

[09nytro]

I will let you know next week......have a demo ride at Larry's bar......the things you pointed out is what I want to know......a long day the nytro will kick your azz

 

[Funkco]

I put about 3,000 miles on my 09 Nytro and I now have just over 3,000 miles on my F1100 turbo. I can tell you the Procross chassis is definitely easier to ride hard and has noticeably lighter steering than the Nytro does. Overall when my F is running it is the best sled I have owned, the problem is it is constantly broke down. I started with a constant battle of bolts falling out of the rear suspension until the shafts were replaced. Then the rear skid mount bushings wore out. I have blown 7 belts in the sled so far, broken 3 chaincase chains, stripped out the splines on the forward gear, twisted off the jackshaft, broken two sets of secondary clutch rollers, and have had to re-tighten virtually every bolt on the entire chassis. I am at the point that I need to buy a new sled that is reliable enough to ride and want to buy this Viper in the worst way but I just don't know if the core belt and driveline issues will be resolved with just Yamaha clutches. This sled has left me stranded many times now. The Nytro had many quirks and things that needed to be changed to make it ride better but was always reliable. I need to see a Viper in person because I am convinced many of the procross chaincase problems stem from the way the motor is mounted in the chassis and the torque link that Cat developed. If the jackshaft is not mounted to the chassis on the clutch side rather than just the motor like the procross I have little faith that it won't have the same chronic problems.

 

[journeyman]

I put about 3,000 miles on my 09 Nytro and I now have just over 3,000 miles on my F1100 turbo. I can tell you the Procross chassis is definitely easier to ride hard and has noticeably lighter steering than the Nytro does. Overall when my F is running it is the best sled I have owned, the problem is it is constantly broke down. I started with a constant battle of bolts falling out of the rear suspension until the shafts were replaced. Then the rear skid mount bushings wore out. I have blown 7 belts in the sled so far, broken 3 chaincase chains, stripped out the splines on the forward gear, twisted off the jackshaft, broken two sets of secondary clutch rollers, and have had to re-tighten virtually every bolt on the entire chassis. I am at the point that I need to buy a new sled that is reliable enough to ride and want to buy this Viper in the worst way but I just don't know if the core belt and driveline issues will be resolved with just Yamaha clutches. This sled has left me stranded many times now. The Nytro had many quirks and things that needed to be changed to make it ride better but was always reliable. I need to see a Viper in person because I am convinced many of the procross chaincase problems stem from the way the motor is mounted in the chassis and the torque link that Cat developed. If the jackshaft is not mounted to the chassis on the clutch side rather than just the motor like the procross I have little faith that it won't have the same chronic problems.

Sorry to hear about all of your issues with the Cat. Of course that has to scare a few potential Viper buyers. I myself am hoping that what I heard at the show is true and it helps resolve these issues. I was told that Yamaha has been in their plant for almost a year and has changed the way alot of things are done to improve the overall quality of these machines. I did notce at the show that alot of the bolts on these looked like the ones I am used to seeing on the Japan units. Next season is going to be big for this machine to see how it performs and holds up. It could be a make or break deal mostly for Yamaha. Crazy as it seems but I think the diehard Cat owners are used to having issues and don't think much of it. They keep coming back for more.

Some photos I took that night:

 

[09nytro]

I'm all pumped to get a viper then I read something like that ....makes me start thinking

 

[cannondale27]

Sure wish that big black front bulkhead was a nice Yamaha aluminum casting.

 

[Yammerhead]

The cast brace that holds the secondary side jack shaft bearing seems pretty light duty for all the chassis and drive line forces it will see. Lots going on there.


edit: Looking at the A/C pics, the Viper brace is quite a bit beefier than the Procross.

 

[journeyman]

The cast brace that holds the secondary side jack shaft bearing seems pretty light duty for all the chassis and drive line forces it will see. Lots going on there.


edit: Looking at the A/C pics, the Viper brace is quite a bit beefier than the Procross.

I noticed that too.

Cat's:

 

[yukon yamaha]

That brace is there beacuse untill this run of machines with Yamaha at the head I think the Cat engines were not solid mounted like the nytro motor?..... I think they had rubber mounts and were able to flex. From the pictures our guys brought back from the dealer show it does seem that the nytro engine is solid mounted in the new frame. I do hope very very much that yamaha changed the chain case over to yamaha gears and a bigger chain!!
ANY one that got to see one up close I an dying to know if the intake will be able to get a intake kit put on.....??????

 

[LJ 452]

Based on what I've read, and can see from the pics;

Cat tried to maintain primary to secondary alignment, and spacing (CtC) using the aluminum bar TCL (torque control link), originally it was a solid billet piece that was machined. By the 12' release the TCL was a piece of extruded aluminum (hollow). After the 12' season they found that the TCL was cracking, so they increased the wall thickness of the extrusion nearly 2x. This TCL and the one pictured above is only on the 2-stroke models, the 4-stroke is a different design, cast aluminum and it mount to the block, but ultimately serves the same purpose. When you think about it, the concept of the TCL is quite neat, the problem is when you start to add the reality that the engine moves and therefore the jack shaft must be free to move with it. Imagine what happens to the chain side of the shaft as it floats around on the secondary side. I believe the TCL concept is one that will greatly help the drivetrain of a sled, I think it just needs some refinement before the true benefit is realized. Maybe something like one TCL for each side of the engine with the drive shaft tied as well, oh wait that sounds similar to the castings that are on the Nytro and Phazer!

The way Yamaha mounted the motor and tied the jack-shaft to the bulkhead it will be interesting to see how well it really works, I have a feeling it will be fine, I also feel the chain case issues will not exist on the Viper for the same reasons not so much due to who makes the gears.

 

[Dano]

On a different note, with the different hood designs between cat and yamie, I'm guessing only the Vector has the front rad and the cat has the traditional exchangers under tunnel. Anybody confirm? I can't find any pic to confirm a rad in cat, but the cat seems to not have a front vent in hood.

Dan

 

[yamajammer76]

On a different note, with the different hood designs between cat and yamie, I'm guessing only the Vector has the front rad and the cat has the traditional exchangers under tunnel. Anybody confirm? I can't find any pic to confirm a rad in cat, but the cat seems to not have a front vent in hood.

Dan

Wouldn't that change how the whole thing is programmed for temperatures? It seems like Yamaha always used the radiator to maintain a more constant engine temp for the fuel injection system. I'm thinking the pre-production units just say 7000 on them, but are really another sled.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Cat is making everything for the viper except the clutches.

The ECU and electronics are all cat, the chaincase and gears and chain are all made by cat. The gears and chain will likely be spec'd stronger then cats 12/13 gears/chain which were china crap.

Cat is said to be sourcing their 14 clutch and chaincase parts all from USA suppliers rather then china. Cat knows their stuff for the last two yrs has been sub par.

I expect the new Viper to be fine with only 135hp, the cat turbos stock(177hp) were mostly decent, but when boosted up(240-260hp) we all saw the poor quality china parts fail. 135 HP with yammie clutches would have been fine even with the current cat china parts.

think of Viper as a zr7000 with good yammie clutches.

Dan

This is the ZR7000....it will have vents in front for the rad below

comparo pic...viper left, ZR7000 right