Can it take a beating

[mr. shide]

Sure wish that big black front bulkhead was a nice Yamaha aluminum casting.

I was thinking the exact same thing!

 

[**sj**]

Based on what I've read, and can see from the pics;

Cat tried to maintain primary to secondary alignment, and spacing (CtC) using the aluminum bar TCL (torque control link), originally it was a solid billet piece that was machined. By the 12' release the TCL was a piece of extruded aluminum (hollow). After the 12' season they found that the TCL was cracking, so they increased the wall thickness of the extrusion nearly 2x. This TCL and the one pictured above is only on the 2-stroke models, the 4-stroke is a different design, cast aluminum and it mount to the block, but ultimately serves the same purpose. When you think about it, the concept of the TCL is quite neat, the problem is when you start to add the reality that the engine moves and therefore the jack shaft must be free to move with it. Imagine what happens to the chain side of the shaft as it floats around on the secondary side. I believe the TCL concept is one that will greatly help the drivetrain of a sled, I think it just needs some refinement before the true benefit is realized. Maybe something like one TCL for each side of the engine with the drive shaft tied as well, oh wait that sounds similar to the castings that are on the Nytro and Phazer!

The way Yamaha mounted the motor and tied the jack-shaft to the bulkhead it will be interesting to see how well it really works, I have a feeling it will be fine, I also feel the chain case issues will not exist on the Viper for the same reasons not so much due to who makes the gears.

the tcl was designed to maintain center to center...however with this weak chassis...there is movement east and west...and with the tcl it actually makes things worse! Jim at OSP built a solid mount tecl brace where it fixed it to the chassis...kinda like what you see from yamaha' going on the viper...also added a motor mount brace...

there is chassis flex going on with this chassis...and movement under load...you can see where yamaha is trying to do a better job of bolstering their version...and thats great...but seeing first hand the workmanship..or lack thereof and build inconsistencies of cat...dont expect a yamaha...think of it like a mtd garden tractor with a honda motor build by mtd...at least for now...

 

[Funkco]

Cat is making everything for the viper except the clutches.

The ECU and electronics are all cat, the chaincase and gears and chain are all made by cat. The gears and chain will likely be spec'd stronger then cats 12/13 gears/chain which were china crap.

Cat is said to be sourcing their 14 clutch and chaincase parts all from USA suppliers rather then china. Cat knows their stuff for the last two yrs has been sub par.

I expect the new Viper to be fine with only 135hp, the cat turbos stock(177hp) were mostly decent, but when boosted up(240-260hp) we all saw the poor quality china parts fail. 135 HP with yammie clutches would have been fine even with the current cat china parts.

think of Viper as a zr7000 with good yammie clutches.

Dan


Guys with stock 800's are breaking chains and jackshafts so the turbo's power isn't the problem, it really is the fact that the jackshaft can bounce around in all directions. The motor mount and jackshaft solid brace pictured on the Viper is a thousand times better than what Cat has done so far. I give that a high probability of solving the chaincase issues.

 

[Groomer08]

You cant buy a cat and expect yamaha quality. plain and simple.

 

[snowbeast]

2013 procross lxr 1100 turbo 1600 miles all good

My sled is the 13 with updated chaincase,so i have had zero problems other than the three belts i have broke,and those three were done in the first 300 miles,until we descovered the POS belt cover and rotor box area was and still does if you dont have them covered can take a top cog belt apart very quickly when it ballons up,on decell,than snaps back once you gas hard again,but the 082 stock cat belt is still the best belt overall,and i am boosted w/TD stage 4 the power is sick,handling with a pair of pilot 5.7's and 7.5 shapers makes it rail,ride is now really good,if you ride it like you stole it,it shines if you just sit there and try to run thru the twisty stuff,it will pull up on one ski,mine feels like it needs to be driven hard to be really liked,and that is how i ride most of the time. Now we do have a 09 nytro xtx w/a 1.75 track on it,and he runs very hard all the time,but he just cant keep up with the lxr even in the tight and twisty stuff,we swapped sleds last weekend,for about 30 miles,and once i got my sled back,i looked at him and said,how the heck do you manage to even keep my tailight in sight,that xtx is not in the same zipcode as the procross chassie,he agreeded and was so far ahead of me on his sled,and i was trying to catch him,but just no way,and this was in the woods,out on a big road,its just tears it up,so if the viper rides and handles like the 13 procross chassies,you guys will be getting a treat. Oh ya one other thing,1600 miles still on stock hyfax and wheels,now one single nut or bolt lose,all hoses tight,reverse has worked perfect every time,just the underhood heat and crappy cat clutches causing belt problems,if you guys get awsome yammi clutches,man it will be sweet,now add a turbo or SC oh boy i am coming back to yamaha.

 

[Nytro40th]

My sled is the 13 with updated chaincase,so i have had zero problems other than the three belts i have broke,and those three were done in the first 300 miles,until we descovered the POS belt cover and rotor box area was and still does if you dont have them covered can take a top cog belt apart very quickly when it ballons up,on decell,than snaps back once you gas hard again,but the 082 stock cat belt is still the best belt overall,and i am boosted w/TD stage 4 the power is sick,handling with a pair of pilot 5.7's and 7.5 shapers makes it rail,ride is now really good,if you ride it like you stole it,it shines if you just sit there and try to run thru the twisty stuff,it will pull up on one ski,mine feels like it needs to be driven hard to be really liked,and that is how i ride most of the time. Now we do have a 09 nytro xtx w/a 1.75 track on it,and he runs very hard all the time,but he just cant keep up with the lxr even in the tight and twisty stuff,we swapped sleds last weekend,for about 30 miles,and once i got my sled back,i looked at him and said,how the heck do you manage to even keep my tailight in sight,that xtx is not in the same zipcode as the procross chassie,he agreeded and was so far ahead of me on his sled,and i was trying to catch him,but just no way,and this was in the woods,out on a big road,its just tears it up,so if the viper rides and handles like the 13 procross chassies,you guys will be getting a treat. Oh ya one other thing,1600 miles still on stock hyfax and wheels,now one single nut or bolt lose,all hoses tight,reverse has worked perfect every time,just the underhood heat and crappy cat clutches causing belt problems,if you guys get awsome yammi clutches,man it will be sweet,now add a turbo or SC oh boy i am coming back to yamaha.

Good to hear

 

[09nytro]

That's good to hear....now I want one again ......

 

[snowbeast]

That's good to hear....now I want one again ......

AS long as you are not a max hp junkie like i thought i was,you will love it,why i said that was now that i have at my thumb 270 hp if needed,i dont need it,man you can get into trouble in a hurry with my base hp on eco boost which is 210hp,i only now and than hit map 2 that is 235 hp and that is insane on alot of the tight trails we ride a lot...lol enjoy if you get one.

 

[jedwards89]

Thanks beast. You are making me feel a bit better about dropping a down payment on a viper. I don't think I would do too much to it as I see it as my wife's future sled when Yamaha comes out with their 50th anniversary sleds. Maybe header work and some clutch work.

 

[snowbeast]

Thanks beast. You are making me feel a bit better about dropping a down payment on a viper. I don't think I would do too much to it as I see it as my wife's future sled when Yamaha comes out with their 50th anniversary sleds. Maybe header work and some clutch work.

Hey no problem,i bet once Allen Ulmer get some testing done,he will have some fairly cheap goodies for ya.

 

[lakercr]

I am sure this question has come up but my biggest concern is can this new chassie take a beating on a saturday afternoon of running tug hill with 3 + moguls day in and day out? I have a nytro RTX SE and I have to say the sled had taken anything I could give it without any issues. My biggest problem with my Nytro is that riding it takes a bit more work these days than I really want. Heavy steering and the weight is a bit too front heavy making the day feel a bit longer than it really is. By the sounds of it, the new chassis has taken care of those issues I have had with the Nytro. Maybe this is more of a suspension issue...The suspension on that Nytro was meant for big bump riding, with this new suspension hold up? I guess I am in up in the air about it. I love my nytro but want something that will be a bit easier on the soulders and a bit easier to ride in the tight and twisties. Curious to hear thoughts about those who have the Procross chassis particularly with he 1100 or the 1100 Turbo who are a bit more of an aggressive trail rider. Unfortunately I will not get the opportunity to get to Snodeo to test ride one.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

We switched over to Arctic Cat (from DOO) for this year's Snow-x season. I can offer a few thoughts regarding the Pro Cross chassis as it relates to durability in what I'll suggest is a more extreme environment that anything you will find on a trail. This would be a sled that is raced almost exclusively on the National ISOC circuit, and spends most non-race days turning practice laps at Quadna Mountain Park.

Suspension:

Bullet proof so far this season. We do our own PDI, and initially found some loose bolts in the rear end, but once set up for track time, the skid/front end has been without issue.

Chassis:

Both running boards are starting to cut their way through towards the tunnel, right about where your heels would rest in a seated riding position. That probably sounds worse than it is. With a small hole drilled at the leading edge of the crack, and some support added, this issue hasn't progressed. I wouldn't expect to see this problem on a trail sled. Where the running board extends up under the brake and chaincase is in very good shape; cetainly better that any previous iteration of the DOO chassis (even with additional bracing). Extreme flex here is easily evidenced by a distorted brake disk cover, and this one was minty until a certain Royal Distributing rider parked his ski on it a few weeks ago in Deadwood. Shock towers & bulkhead have shown no signs of fatigue.

Drivetrain:

We've snapped one jackshaft - right behind the chaincase where the splines start their cut for the top gear. Cat uses an articulating bearing on the jackshaft, which suggests a certain amount of torsional flex is anticipated by the engineer. I haven't seen it in person yet, but Yamaha's jackshaft support looks much more substantial than the Cat TCL. At this point in the season, we would probably be on chain #4 with the DOO (broken plates). We are still on the original chain with the Cat. Belts are changed too often to comment on their durability, and given that the Viper will come with Yamaha's proven primary/secondary I don't have anything to add here.

Overall impression of the sled is that it is more predictable, and flies straighter that an XP chassis. From a service perspective, it has required less maintainence that any race sled to-date.

 

[canadianhunter]

Very good write up lakercr

 

[snowbeast]

Was this sled a 600 race sled,or a800 trail sled beefed up,at any rate it sounds like it can take a beating,and that is good news for both yammi and cat crowd,thanks for your input.

 

[lakercr]

This is the 600 Sno Pro race sled. It isn't available to consumers; you need a race resume...

 

[Nytro40th]

Thanks for the write up Lakercr