Soupy
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Did some mocking up with measurements tonight. My findings:
-1.220" total primary lateral travel after engagement
-1.030" total secondary lateral travel
Wouldn't this bind up both sideways and belt length after the secondary is fully shifted and the primary is trying to shift a bit more? I understand the primary probably closes a bit more from engagement to when the machine starts to move but I didn't think .200". At full shift, I measured the angle that the belt was on, easily an 1/8" that the belt needed to move over farther inward in the secondary. I was not able to move the primary to the end of its travel with the belt installed no matter how many times I moved the belt, tightened clamps, moved belt, etc. I got it within about .050.
I have 1 shim behind the secondary with offset measurement right at 61.2. Yes, I've blown a couple belts, all stock. Pic of the mockup:
-1.220" total primary lateral travel after engagement
-1.030" total secondary lateral travel
Wouldn't this bind up both sideways and belt length after the secondary is fully shifted and the primary is trying to shift a bit more? I understand the primary probably closes a bit more from engagement to when the machine starts to move but I didn't think .200". At full shift, I measured the angle that the belt was on, easily an 1/8" that the belt needed to move over farther inward in the secondary. I was not able to move the primary to the end of its travel with the belt installed no matter how many times I moved the belt, tightened clamps, moved belt, etc. I got it within about .050.
I have 1 shim behind the secondary with offset measurement right at 61.2. Yes, I've blown a couple belts, all stock. Pic of the mockup:
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krm
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I have had no belt issues so far running one .045 shim behind driven.Sled has over 2200 on it .
jaydaniels
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Do you still have both springs in the clutches? The secondary stock Spring is known to coil bind.
stevewithOCD
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I don't mean to be Captain Obvious here or undermine your work, but are you sure that ruler is PERFECTLY straight? I have 3 of them & not one is good on the stone table or surface plate when used that way.
I like what your doing. I will do this to mine when it gets home just to make sure there is not something different or wrong.
I like what your doing. I will do this to mine when it gets home just to make sure there is not something different or wrong.
stevewithOCD
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Another question for all. Do these clutches "torque in"? Meaning, are they offset or out of alignment a bit to let the motor torque align the clutches?
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krm
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Try 8kc-ra446-00 =.020
XP123
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I'm not going to check my clutches because I have enough crap going through my head with this sled. All I know is I have had zero issues with my belt. 1500 miles and the belt looks almost new. If I had problems like some have reported then I would worry and be checking stuff.
ClutchMaster
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Well if your blowing belts check everything.
Center to Center 264mm +- 2mm
Offset is on the high side, if your blowing belts go on the low side of the offset.
Check and make sure the clutches are parallel. Use the straight side of the straight edge not the flat side.
If you change something recheck all you previous measurements.
I prefer to have the primary with a slight tilt forward (out of parallel) like the old sleds used to spec. Solid mounts or not, the motor is going to flex a little and if it’s already perfectly parallel it won’t be at maximum power.
With the clutches out of parallel (engine tilted towards secondary) it will cause the secondary to open prematurely and lose belt grip. I also would recommend giving the secondary another 10~20 degrees of twist and see where your rpms are at.
jaydaniels
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I think his concern here is not so much alignment but how far the primary clutch travels when fully closed in comparison to how far the secondary can open. If the secondary can’t travel as far as the primary then it likely places more stress in the belt. Try doing the same test but remove the secondary spring. If you now have the same travel distance on both clutches than the secondary spring coil bind was the issue. I just changed my secondary spring to a Dalton Black Orange which eliminate the coil bind.
**sj**
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I would think the opposite...if anything I would want slightly MORE offset...
if you are blowing belts heres what to look for...
make sure the metal washer is REMOVED from the osp belt adjuster
check bad primary spring as some early werent good...
primary torqued properly..
roller flat spotting on secondary...
all bushings clean...
no oil on air filter leaking onto clutches
leaks around your belly pan could let the belt get wet and slip...
lack of secondary spring tension for a given power...
and all the others mentioned like ctc...and parallelism although I believe not adjustable...would be good to know ..
if you are blowing belts heres what to look for...
make sure the metal washer is REMOVED from the osp belt adjuster
check bad primary spring as some early werent good...
primary torqued properly..
roller flat spotting on secondary...
all bushings clean...
no oil on air filter leaking onto clutches
leaks around your belly pan could let the belt get wet and slip...
lack of secondary spring tension for a given power...
and all the others mentioned like ctc...and parallelism although I believe not adjustable...would be good to know ..
ClutchMaster
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Ok yea sure the primary isn’t torqued properly that’s it! LOL
So you think it’s the opposite and more offset would be better? Do you have any theory behind that? You should try giving your sled a few extra shims under the secondary and see how that works out for you.
I would hope something as obvious as oil spots on the cluches would be noticed.
Look at how clean his clutches are, they are like brand new, and he has been moving them by hand so it’s not a sticking bushing.
As far as the extra .200” of travel... well the belt won’t even move in the secondary for the first .060”~..100 of primary travel because of belt clearance and looseness of the belt.
As far as wet clutches go the winders are pretty we’ll sealed up.
What I told him to check is very pertanat to blowing belts, ask me how I know.
I have heard secondary casting flash can cause the secondary to stick, but I have never seen this but I guess you could have a look.
ClutchMaster
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Symptoms of excessive offset..
Erratic RPM’s under full throttle,
Sluggish back shifting,
Excessive clutch heat,
and last but not least, excessive belt wear.
Symptoms of too little offset...
Hitting the rev limiter,
Sled feels snappy, but doesn’t upshift well,
Mileage suffers.
This is due to the fact the belt wants to run in a straight line, if it’s on an angle going into the secondary sheave it will pull it open (to much offset) and cause slipping. Remember your secondary sets the tension for the entire CVT system.
Erratic RPM’s under full throttle,
Sluggish back shifting,
Excessive clutch heat,
and last but not least, excessive belt wear.
Symptoms of too little offset...
Hitting the rev limiter,
Sled feels snappy, but doesn’t upshift well,
Mileage suffers.
This is due to the fact the belt wants to run in a straight line, if it’s on an angle going into the secondary sheave it will pull it open (to much offset) and cause slipping. Remember your secondary sets the tension for the entire CVT system.
ClutchMaster
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I’ll ad this
If your clutches are not hot then it’s time to look for binding issues.
If your clutches are not hot then it’s time to look for binding issues.
**sj**
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