Does anyone from Yamaha read our posts?

[Turtle]

Buy a Winder and lower the boost about 4lbs....voila.

That would be perfect if they could subtract 100 lbs of weight as well.

 

[Attack gt]

Ok... So if Yamaha is reading my post... Please please... do something to bring me back to Yamaha Sleds! I am currently on a Ski Doo 850 and am having a ball on this rocket! I know the Sidewinder is faster... But this 850 is light, flickable, gets better MPG, and has fun factor. I enjoyed my SX Viper, then my Attack gt, and my SR Viper turbo and would have loved a Sidewinder I am sure but the price tag and weight were just not what I am looking for so enter the Ski Doo 850 as a 2017 leftover was priced right and I had to do it! Love it! So .... Please.... Yamaha please ... bring me back with something! An all new 850 plus two stroke twin or even beter... make it a triple!!!! Or how about the apex motor in a modified procros chassis or an all new chasis with similar HP to the 850 DOO and POO!!!! Something in the 165 - 175 hp range to bridge the gap in your lineup and compete with these 850's. Call it a V- Max or Exciter! That would be so cool! I want to be back on a Yamaha some day! Sooner the better but looks like at this point it wont be until at least 2020...

 

[Pstn head]

165-175 hp ? Yamaha state's the Sidewinder 998 makes 180hp... So that's only 5-more hp, perfect sled but with an extra 5hp, imo it's a win win!

 

[03RX1-ER-LE]

Why does everyone keep wanting a 2s?? Do they want to go back to rebuilding the motor, do they want to keep spending big money for 2s oil??
The design of our rider forward/procross sled makes the motor buried deep into the sled, and with a 4s no need to go into the chassis to pull the motor and repair. Also the 2s being buried, and not very assessable for this rebuild. Our season is very short and the 4s has made it so we ride those three months not tearing into the sled. My time to ride is limited and with my 4s I know I will always ride home/back to the trailer under my own power, week in and week out. My 2 cents

 

[whitedust1]

Why does everyone keep wanting a 2s?? Do they want to go back to rebuilding the motor, do they want to keep spend big money for 2s oil??
The design of our rider forward/procross sled makes the motor buried deep into the sled, and with a 4s no need to go into the chassis to pull motor and repair. Also the 2s being buried and not very assessable for this rebuild. Our season is very short and the 4s has made it so we ride those three months not tearing into the sled. My time to ride is limited and with my 4s I know I will always ride home/back to the trailer under my own power week in and week out. My 2 cents

Very simple less 2s weight 4s will always be the heavyweights on trail or powder and consumers have been beat to death with weight matters. Weight is not overly important to me but doo, poo and earlier cat as well market light weight asan important feature to good handling. Yamaha improved handling with eps to give a light feel but failed to give us a comfortable rear suspension and competitors blamed that failure on weight of 4s sleds. The market overwhelmingly agreed that weight matters so here we are. Yamaha needs to trim weight of engines and chassis and bring on a sled that handles better than any 2s or 4s on the market and we will buy it. The big BUT is will Yamaha do this in 2020??? Imo Yamaha can’t wait any longer either bring a kick #*$&@ handling light 4s to market or exit. Nothing less is worth marketing and will fail. I’m sure Yamaha is aware but needs to execute.

 

[Wannaviper]

In one of the other threads there is discussion about Yamaha's patent on a sled chassis utilizing carbon fiber components. Who knows if it will ever happen, or what it will weigh if it does, but could you imagine what would happen to the industry if Yamaha was able to put the Sidewinder engine in a chassis where the total weight of engine and chassis was equal to, or less than the weight of the 850 Skidoo? I know it is a pipe dream, but if they could do it, it would turn the snowmobiling world upside down!

 

[Riceburner]

Why does everyone keep wanting a 2s?? Do they want to go back to rebuilding the motor, do they want to keep spend big money for 2s oil??
The design of our rider forward/procross sled makes the motor buried deep into the sled, and with a 4s no need to go into the chassis to pull motor and repair. Also the 2s being buried and not very assessable for this rebuild. Our season is very short and the 4s has made it so we ride those three months not tearing into the sled. My time to ride is limited and with my 4s I know I will always ride home/back to the trailer under my own power week in and week out. My 2 cents

No reliability in our area with the YamaCat 4 strokes.
Two of my riding buds down in last 3 weeks. 4,000 mile Viper chain piled up in bottom of case. 3,000 mile Sidewinder, Crate motor back ordered. Centre Cylinder very low compression.
Buddy with the Viper needed a crate motor in his 14 Viper first time out brand new in 2014.
4 other 998's in my area need engines. [same issue] [1 tuned, 3 not tuned.] only one engine available. Guys are not happy.
I had no issues with my multiple Yammie Triple 2 strokes and some I put over 12,000 miles on them.
That said I have full confidence in my Apex's which I kept.
I've had no issues with my Winder but based on my friends experiences and my lack of faith in it, it may well get kicked to the curb next year.

 

[Wannaviper]

No reliability in our area with the YamaCat 4 strokes.
Two of my riding buds down in last 3 weeks. 4,000 mile Viper chain piled up in bottom of case. 3,000 mile Sidewinder, Crate motor back ordered. Centre Cylinder very low compression.
Buddy with the Viper needed a crate motor in his 14 Viper first time out brand new in 2014.
4 other 998's in my area need engines. [same issue] [1 tuned, 3 not tuned.] only one engine available. Guys are not happy.
I had no issues with my multiple Yammie Triple 2 strokes and some I put over 12,000 miles on them.
That said I have full confidence in my Apex's which I kept.
I've had no issues with my Winder but based on my friends experiences and my lack of faith in it, it may well get kicked to the curb next year.

I guess we all have different experiences and thoughts on reliability. I have three Vipers. One is a 2014 with nearly 9,000 miles that has been bulletproof, and an engine that is stronger now than it was the day we bought it. I have a 2015 with over 5,000 and absolutely no issues at all. Finally, I have a 2016 with almost 4,000 miles and the only issue has been replacing a stretched out chain, which was not an engine reliability problem. As far as I am concerned, that is 18,000 trouble free miles on "YamaCat 4 strokes." For every one of the problems you have described, I saw at least one Skidoo on the side of the trail or being towed this winter with engine issues. I know one Skidoo guy who went through three 800 engines in his sled before he finally bought a 4 stroke. So there are a lot of people out there who, whether they will admit it or not, would like to have our 4 stroke reliability.

 

[03RX1-ER-LE]

No reliability in our area with the YamaCat 4 strokes.
Two of my riding buds down in last 3 weeks. 4,000 mile Viper chain piled up in bottom of case. 3,000 mile Sidewinder, Crate motor back ordered. Centre Cylinder very low compression.
Buddy with the Viper needed a crate motor in his 14 Viper first time out brand new in 2014.
4 other 998's in my area need engines. [same issue] [1 tuned, 3 not tuned.] only one engine available. Guys are not happy.
I had no issues with my multiple Yammie Triple 2 strokes and some I put over 12,000 miles on them.
That said I have full confidence in my Apex's which I kept.
I've had no issues with my Winder but based on my friends experiences and my lack of faith in it, it may well get kicked to the curb next year.

Sorry to hear about these issues, seems like some of the issues are due to AC parts.
The motor problem seems pretty shocking, Yamaha has been making 4s sled motors for 15 years.
The 2s triple days the motor was very easy to access, if needed, yes they went lots and lots of miles which I tribute to Yamaha quality. My buddies 2004 Venom has 8k miles so far, still motor runs top notch and keeps up with his 2015 Viper.

 

[FrozenTows4]

Here's my take......................

Yamaha has 2 mouths to feed now engine wise. Arctic and Yamaha. Essentially double production is needed since the ProCross chassis is such a success. Beat it up, as you may, but it's what put Yamaha back on the map.

Engine assemblers need more help to meet demand. Staff is hired, or existing employees are on temporary/permanent over time.
Purchasing has to source alternate vendors of what is perceived as comparable quality parts.
Past engine quality, and constancy, suffers due to increased demand. At the same time corporate attempts to streamline for a better bottom line.

Gone are the days of Nick Kellers 2010 RS Vector GT 1049cc getting valves checked at 20,000 miles and then needing adjusting at 45,000 miles. Now it's closer to 10,000 or less for reasons speculated above.

I purchased my first, and last, new Yamaha powered ProCross chassis snowmobile in 2014. Main selling point, and extra dollars spent, was the past reputation of Yamaha quality engines. Aside from a poorly designed reverse actuator, by Arctic, all other issues were engine related, Yamaha.

Only really help was from Arctic. And that wasn't much. Yamaha appears to be just sitting back to see what will happen next.

The high mile, "never had a problem" people, are the exception and not the rule. Their time is coming.

It will be a long time before I consider buying a new Yamaha power sport anything ever again.

 

[Wannaviper]

Here's my take......................

Yamaha has 2 mouths to feed now engine wise. Arctic and Yamaha. Essentially double production is needed since the ProCross chassis is such a success. Beat it up, as you may, but it's what put Yamaha back on the map.

Engine assemblers need more help to meet demand. Staff is hired, or existing employees are on temporary/permanent over time.
Purchasing has to source alternate vendors of what is perceived as comparable quality parts.
Past engine quality, and constancy, suffers due to increased demand. At the same time corporate attempts to streamline for a better bottom line.

Gone are the days of Nick Kellers 2010 RS Vector GT 1049cc getting valves checked at 20,000 miles and then needing adjusting at 45,000 miles. Now it's closer to 10,000 or less for reasons speculated above.

I purchased my first, and last, new Yamaha powered ProCross chassis snowmobile in 2014. Main selling point, and extra dollars spent, was the past reputation of Yamaha quality engines. Aside from a poorly designed reverse actuator, by Arctic, all other issues were engine related, Yamaha.

Only really help was from Arctic. And that wasn't much. Yamaha appears to be just sitting back to see what will happen next.

The high mile, "never had a problem" people, are the exception and not the rule. Their time is coming.

It will be a long time before I consider buying a new Yamaha power sport anything ever again.

It is too bad that you have had engine issues with your Yamaha powered Arctic Cat, and that it has soured you on Yamaha. Maybe what you say about increased production lowering Yamaha's quality of production is possible, but I honestly do not believe that to be the case. The 1049cc that was in the 2010 Vector you referred to, and was in my 2011 Vector, and is in my wife's 2013 Vector is the same bulletproof 1049cc that is in my 2014, 2015 and 2016 Vipers. The differences between the Vector and the Viper affecting their reliability seem to be the ones resulting from making the 1049cc compatible with the Pro-Cross chassis. The big two that we hear about all the time, the reverse actuator and ECU, are not problems with the Yamaha engine, and they fall squarely on the back of Arctic Cat. Unfortunately, Yamaha is responsible for the rod changes in the 2016 engines, but my 2016 has those "bad rods" and I have seen no difference in engine reliability or performance. I ride with four Vipers regularly, and not one of them has had an actual "engine" issue in thousands of miles. Aside from the seven Yamaha 4 stroke sleds we own, or have owned, we have had three big Yamaha marine outboard engines (one of which is now 15 years old and going strong) as well as a Rhino UTV and a generator. Every engine has been faultless. I had many Polaris sleds over the years, and I still have three Polaris 4-wheelers, but I cannot make the same quality and reliability claim for their engines. Call me crazy, but I still believe that Yamaha makes the best power sport engines in the world.

 

[74Nitro]

I'm surprised and highly skeptical at the same time about some of these claimed failures. I owned an 08 Nytro that I bought used on ebay in the spring of 08. That sled spent most of its life at WOT and I had ZERO issues with the engine. I changed the PTO stub bearing for preventive measures, but it had not failed. I never checked valve settings, nor planned to. The last 2 years I drove it, I installed the MPI supercharger kit. Ran flawless. Sold it last year with over 12000 miles.
The only time these engines ever gave a stitch of trouble is when Yamaha starting criss-crossing parts with them, like the out-sourced rods in 16 and the Cat fuel injection/software.

 

[Riceburner]

I'm surprised and highly skeptical at the same time about some of these claimed failures.
The only time these engines ever gave a stitch of trouble is when Yamaha starting criss-crossing parts with them, like the out-sourced rods in 16 and the Cat fuel injection/software.

I've had 13 Yamaha sleds since 1998 and 1 ATV, including a Supercharged RX 1 and my current MCX 290 Apex with 8600 km on it.
Well over 130,000 KM on the sleds. Some as high as 21,000 km.
Not one issue that would have left me on the trail or needing assistance to get home in 20 years
I reported above on The Viper and Sidewinder issues I am aware of. My 3 sources are 2 of the guys I ride with and an employee of Cat, Yamaha or a dealer. I consider them all beyond reproach.
I called another friend who has Tuned 14 998's this year that have had no issues in 25,000 miles and then you have TD who says none of their tuned sleds has ever had an engine go down.
No one is more surprised than me with what has happened in my area of the world recently.
I can understand your scepticism Based on my personal experience and past history of the Japanese sleds..
My concern is, where are we now regarding issues that can leave us on the trail.
Some of us are too old to walk out.

 

[Sasquatch]

Yamaha listens but like most they hear what suits them. What people want is a puzzle because does Yamaha give what the loudest want or the silent majority want? Yes some wanted a turbo and most wanted a new Apex, well they built a turbo but it was not a new Apex! Yamaha is of course selling Cats now with thier turbo and a Viper sled that has a bad track record of broken gears in the crankcase! This has left a huge amount of people with the legacy Yamaha sleds who don't want a 204hp turbo sled, don't trust the Viper and don't trust Cats mechanical's to be up to Yamaha standard! So they sold a pile of Turbo sleds to the horse power junkies but now that those that wanted them have them, they have a ton of left over Turbo's and of course Vipers.

Yes Yamaha built turbo's for the turbo lovers, yes they shoehorned a Yamaha engine into a Cat, but obviously they did not make the Legacy Yamaha owners happy or there would be no leftover Cats! There is still a large group still riding their best Yamaha sleds and still waiting for Yamaha to build another sled. I could go buy a Cat with a Yamaha engine in it any time but I am waiting for a Yamaha with a Yamaha engine in it. It can be pyramid framed but it needs a 4 cylinder Apex engine and drive train NA. HP around 150 160 EPS and you spent 5 years at Cat did ya learn how to build a suspension? Make two models a touring version 146 with extra tank and a rear storage with add on seat, and a single seat version in two track lengths 141, 128. Both version with three engine choices triple 130 160 4 banger and lastly the turbo 204hp. For the mountain crown the turbo in two lengths of track one long one insane! All one chassis with a couple different skids and a few different skis, toss the tuner in the garbage Id rather have a single keel with Snowtrackers.

So the solution now is to stop building any new sleds and ask that everyone buy up the left overs! Who is going to buy them? Yamaha has made it clear that you need to buy a Sidewinder, you need to clear out the leftovers! Then the people say that Yamaha is going to come out with a new Yamaha sled to wow the masses in 2020! Yamaha never said that the TY followers did! Now lets say the rumour mill is right, logic then says why buy a leftover or spring check a Freezie Vomit sled (sorry Blue Yellow ) when something better is coming? As Yamaha has dropped all their sleds for 2019 and want to clear inventory of Cat sleds from dealer ships, they could be just moving over to a spring order only relationship with Textron and continue to build engines for them. So 2020 is more of the same! Before I invest 20,000 dollars in a sled with Yamaha I really need to know what they plan to do!

 

[20/80]

I agree, we have to have some indication what Yamaha's plan and direction is, there is so many rumors of the future of Yamaha sleds most rider's don't know what to think, I personally for some reason just do not have the same faith in turning a key on a crossbreed as I do turning a key on my Apex and sure as hell not going to lay 20 grand out on a procross, if you are in a position that you can trade every two years than it doesn't really matter what you buy you are not going to have the sled long enough to worry about things going wrong or not being covered by warranty, the riders that don't trade every two years and hang on to their sleds for 8or 9 years are the one's that are worried about keeping their sleds running after paying out a big investment only to have a nightmare later on down the road keeping them going, Sidewinders may be good while they still have the new smell coming off them but not the average Joe will be able to fix them later on down the road and this is where the nightmare begins, hopefully Yamaha moves away from the procross and Textron all together in the near future and builds its own chassis, man.. i'm glad I bought a Apex while I still could.