What's happened to the Japanese Manufacturers (not just sleds)

[74Nitro]

I’m glad I’m not the only one noticing. And really when you think about it - it’s relatively recent still that things really began to change.

And I must say - as much as I never thought I would part from Yamaha - my Can Am Outlaner 1000R is amazing! Not only does it have twice the horse power of my Grizzly but the handling AND comfort are on another planet. It’s not even close. Obviously I knew the power difference would be huge but I’m completely stunned at the chassis. It’s like comparing a corvette to a chevette. Night & Day difference. Why isn’t Yamaha or Honda making machines like this anymore?!?!?!? Obviously they have the engineering talent. I would prefer to buy blue if I could!

The Polaris 850 is a nice machine also. I love the paralell twin with the same firing setup as the Phazer 500. Sounds nice too.
If Yamaha or any of the Japanese companies built an 850 or 1000 it would sell like crazy I think.

 

[bhall80]

Like everyone else, I'm puzzled with Yamaha's decisions over the last 10+years. I understand all headwinds for the sport but Yamaha has built brand loyalty and a reputation of building high quality products over the last 50 plus years. That's not easy to establish and throwing it out the window and not leveraging that is a real head scratcher. If outdoor power sports are not part of the Japanese culture why not look for an investor like a private equity firm to buyout the divisions they don't want to continue to pour R&D into? That concept probably doesn't make economic sense but always fun to speculate and other manufacturers have made it work. I think the current pro-cross chassis with power steering along with the improvements introduced on this site has many years of life in it. Mentioned many times before but Arctic Cat can move to the Catalyst and Yamaha can stay on the pro-cross with future tweaks from year to year. I really do hope TY continues to operate because I can't imagine ever buying a sled without a tuned 998!

 

[1nc 2000]

The changing of the higher ups over time may not have any interest in snowmobiles.

 

[Viper_Dean]

IMO powersports are reaching a level where incremental changes are super expensive to make and the overall markets are shrinking for engines. Digital stuff is becoming more prevelant amongst people. Gone are the days of working your factory job and coming home to a garage filled with sleds atvs and a corvette. Not saying people dont still do that but its just not the majority like was so common in the 70s-90s.

 

[earthling]

IMO powersports are reaching a level where incremental changes are super expensive to make and the overall markets are shrinking for engines. Digital stuff is becoming more prevelant amongst people. Gone are the days of working your factory job and coming home to a garage filled with sleds atvs and a corvette. Not saying people dont still do that but its just not the majority like was so common in the 70s-90s.

Incremental changes are easy, large scale changes like designing a new motor are hard. Do you mean 'any' updates or change is getting harder to justify, if so, I agree.

The problem is generational and somewhat regional. There is a younger (and by that I mean under 35) that simply don't care as much about powersports of any type. While this still leaves a lot of the population as interested but its not where future growth will come from. There are about a dozen people in my group who all have kids of driving age, less than 30% of them had drivers licenses before they were 18, they simply do not have it as a priority.

This chart clearly shows that driving, and by extension, motorsports of any kind is a generational thing where there is a direct correlation between age and interest, the younger you are, the less likely you are to be interested in a drivers license much less motorsports.

If you look at successful motorsports (e.g. MotoGP, F1, etc) you will see a huge focus on promotion outside traditional first world countries because they are looking for new audience for which the interest is still high (doesn't look like the chart below). Look what has happened to monster trucks, tractor pulls, supercross, etc, all of which are waning in popularity.

 

[bhall80]

Incremental changes are easy, large scale changes like designing a new motor are hard. Do you mean 'any' updates or change is getting harder to justify, if so, I agree.

The problem is generational and somewhat regional. There is a younger (and by that I mean under 35) that simply don't care as much about powersports of any type. While this still leaves a lot of the population as interested but its not where future growth will come from. There are about a dozen people in my group who all have kids of driving age, less than 30% of them had drivers licenses before they were 18, they simply do not have it as a priority.

This chart clearly shows that driving, and by extension, motorsports of any kind is a generational thing where there is a direct correlation between age and interest, the younger you are, the less likely you are to be interested in a drivers license much less motorsports.

If you look at successful motorsports (e.g. MotoGP, F1, etc) you will see a huge focus on promotion outside traditional first world countries because they are looking for new audience for which the interest is still high (doesn't look like the chart below). Look what has happened to monster trucks, tractor pulls, supercross, etc, all of which are waning in popularity.


View attachment 173396

These stats are crazy! I'm 48 and the day I took my drivers test at 16 I was so excited I skipped my first conference varsity baseball game to rip around town in VW Rabbit GTI! My coach was not happy! Times have changed for sure. I have 4 boys and the main road block to power sports in our family is not only are sports schedules tough to work around but almost zero kids in the area ride anything. A few neighbor's kids have jumped on our Snoscoot but when mom and dad need to spend tens of thousands for two sleds and trailer to make it a family outing... the conversation ends quickly. The more you can get kids on 120's and 200's in large markets the better chance to drive some new demand. Local tracks for kids with artificial snow to ride on Friday nights versus snowboarding would help too. Not sure how you get that done.

 

[pdiddy]

Indoor carting was a big thing for a while - not sure how it's doing these days. Seems the entry for a similar sled based activity would have an even smaller capital layout requirement. All you'd need is a field and a bunch of 120's and insurance and you're off the the races.

 

[cannondale27]

I blame Japans decline in innovation and production on the Tsunami/Fukishima and a very rapidly declining population. Its not just sleds its evident. Vehicles also. Dont believe India will ever build a sled but they are the fastest advancing country for sure.

 

[Viper_Dean]

Incremental changes are easy, large scale changes like designing a new motor are hard. Do you mean 'any' updates or change is getting harder to justify, if so, I agree.

The problem is generational and somewhat regional. There is a younger (and by that I mean under 35) that simply don't care as much about powersports of any type. While this still leaves a lot of the population as interested but its not where future growth will come from. There are about a dozen people in my group who all have kids of driving age, less than 30% of them had drivers licenses before they were 18, they simply do not have it as a priority.

This chart clearly shows that driving, and by extension, motorsports of any kind is a generational thing where there is a direct correlation between age and interest, the younger you are, the less likely you are to be interested in a drivers license much less motorsports.

If you look at successful motorsports (e.g. MotoGP, F1, etc) you will see a huge focus on promotion outside traditional first world countries because they are looking for new audience for which the interest is still high (doesn't look like the chart below). Look what has happened to monster trucks, tractor pulls, supercross, etc, all of which are waning in popularity.


View attachment 173396

I meant changes to stuff is getting harder and harder to justify i.e. putting EFI on a motor or rebuildable shocks. Those massive advancements are not as easy as they were to do in the 80s or 90s. ( i guess the term I'm looking for is refinement vs leave as is). I don't know why the different generations don't want to drive as much, but that is an exact explanation. You will always have kids like myself who find monster trucks and sleds wicked cool, but so many now could care less. I don't know where the energy is going, but its going somewhere besides powersports. Within 5-10 years alot of the people who have been funding the high priced toys we see on the market are going to be too old to use them or keep purchasing a sled each season. Just purchasing a sled at my age is unheard of let alone buying a new one every season. How the market changes from that mentality will determine toys future.

 

[earthling]

I meant changes to stuff is getting harder and harder to justify i.e. putting EFI on a motor or rebuildable shocks. Those massive advancements are not as easy as they were to do in the 80s or 90s. ( i guess the term I'm looking for is refinement vs leave as is). I don't know why the different generations don't want to drive as much, but that is an exact explanation. You will always have kids like myself who find monster trucks and sleds wicked cool, but so many now could care less. I don't know where the energy is going, but its going somewhere besides powersports. Within 5-10 years alot of the people who have been funding the high priced toys we see on the market are going to be too old to use them or keep purchasing a sled each season. Just purchasing a sled at my age is unheard of let alone buying a new one every season. How the market changes from that mentality will determine toys future.

It depends on the sport and/or the market. Powersports isn't a huge growth market right now when compared to other opportunities that companies like Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Honda, etc are all likely very interested in. Toys will change to follow the audience, whoever those boring people are