Feeling Guilty

[biffdotorg]

Yep.. I have the 16 xtx with the 1.75 146 track and VK pro skis, these so called tanks can go through 2-3ft of the fresh stuff without a sweat, I don't have the comfy of the groomed trails in my area so if you want to go snowmobiling you make and break your own trails, my apex tank does this pretty easy I think, that 850 in your vid sure can get on top of the snow though, wonder how the t900 would be in the deep stuff? Doo's like to run 16" width track footprint with the 137 that does make a difference and less tippy, it just may be the same amount of rubber on the ground as a 144 15" ???

That's true, their tunnels can take the 15 or 16" width. And my one buddy has the 16" stock on his older Rev Renegade. I'm not sure which models come 16" stock these days. 15" is just so common. Either way, I was amazed at the capability of that freeride. My other Summit riding buddy was at this party, and he looks at that 137" freeride and says, "it's just a baby!"

He's right, to the mountain guys it is. Here in MN, until this year, our deepest snow was ditches, drifts and a blown in pasture. So it was short stretches of deep snow. And the flickability of a 137-144 makes more sense than a 154+" tractor. That does not mean we didn't see more mountain sleds than ever out in MN this year. Those boys were happy as well.

The funny part about this whole season, is the dealers probably cleaned out stock of anything 144+ with a 2" plus track. And more than half those guys will be bitching next year if we have an average snow season. HA! It's not all lost, as many have proven above a 1.75" track is still the choice for many ditch bangers. I just wanted the tallest lug I could get with at least some stud without going with those crazy long studs like the snowcross guys use. Others have proven otherwise, but 1.875" studs and track longevity just don't seem to go together in my head. After having two sleds now, with 1.5 and 1.6" tracks, I know in my head, they are all I need.

But I will never forget how much fun that Freeride was. Effortless wheelies with my 240lb fat #*$&@ on it!! OMG! (as the owner stated, it's geared for it and it tops out at 80mph)

 

[20/80]

I am going to try the I grip screw in type carbide on my 1.75 next season for some extra grip on the icy trails, there is talk on this forum that riders that have used them have had pretty good luck with them and my track lugs have spots that are beefed up to house them, some Doo's in their line up are running the 16" tracks.

 

[whitedust1]

Anything more than 1.25 track Yamaha or any other brand would be a hyfax burner for me. Typically northern WI trails are a foot to 15 inches of dry snirtysnow groomed to the max few bumps. This year was an anomaly with 3 feet of wet snow with a 6 inch ice base. Best for me to buy a sled and track for the norm and probably won’t see snow depth like this for another 15 years. I’ll never complain about not enough snow again 3 feet all at once caused collapsed buildings, road blockades, leaking roofs , and groomer equipment that couldn’t groom trails. Crazy season for sure. Lol

 

[crk1333]

I put on a 1.6 ice cobra, a arm float plates and Mohawk skis. It made a huge difference!!

 

[biffdotorg]

Anything more than 1.25 track Yamaha or any other brand would be a hyfax burner for me. Typically northern WI trails are a foot to 15 inches of dry snirtysnow groomed to the max few bumps.

I believed that at one time as well. Ran 1" tracks on the old trailing arm Yamahas, bought the Phazer with 1.25 and Apex GT had the 1.325 on it. Put the 1.5 on the Phazer, and 1.6 on the Apex and never looked back. Combined that's over 17.000 miles on tracks bigger than 1.5" with no abnormal hyfax wear in MN and MI. Wisconsin trails are really not much different than the Snirt we ride in MN early and late season. My skid was filled with sand this weekend.

And to top that off, I have only installed scratchers on my most recent Apex! The dupont hyfax and stock wheels on the XTX work fine on wear. And the Phazer had Duponts with low snow wheel kit. I burned a set of hyfax every other season or season and a half that equates to about 3000 miles. With that mileage, I gave up on the 1.25" adage. The very minute I installed the 1.5" freeride or the 1.6" ice cobra I realized how much power I was loosing to track spin in all conditions. So much track spin on the XTX, that it will throw your mileage off!! Full studs are another way of course. As always, only you know the conditions you ride in. I'm just saying for me, there is no reason to go less than 1.5 anymore.

 

[coolio]

Where are you at in Maine? I'm near Damariscotta, midcoast.

I live by Newport but I own land in Northern Aroostook county.

 

[coolio]

So many features of sleds that make them more or less capable are not brand specific. I am horribly guilty of putting on the blinders and believing that 90% of Yamahas were trail tanks, and that is where they should be rode.

To this point, I assumed that when/if I replaced my Apex XTX, it would be for something in the 150-160hp range in a lighter, more modern chassis. Renegade, Switchback assault, AC Cross country etc. 800cc seemed obvious, as there were no real 4-stroke replacements other than the Sidewinder.

The Renegade 900T seemed like an obvious choice as "light" seemed "right" as all the mountain guys preached. But being a MN flatlander, we come to admit that we ride trails and have never had the luxury of deep snow to ride. Other than the once a winter dump for a day. Then the true trail tank showed it's colors, and a 144" 1.25 track with stock skis would push through snow more than float no matter what.

Then some revelation came to be. 4500 miles ago, I put on the 1.6" Ice Cobra track. (I know, I preach about this on 50% of my posts, but bare with me) All of a sudden it allowed the trail tank to "push" through way more snow. I was not afraid to park off the edge of the groomed trail, or take the road approach where the groomer had not gone. Or go rip an untracked pasture that we knew was 3ft deep. It plowed, but it went through better than any 121 or 137 with stock track.

After one trip to Wyoming with my new found love of a track. I decided to buy Apex Mountain skis I had found on Ebay for dirtball pricing. They have sat in my attic waiting for that next trip to the mountains. Then came the winter of 2018/2019. Weekend after weekend of snow dumps giving us more untracked powder than I had ever seen in MN. The mountain skis came out, and transformed the Trail Tank into a 730+lb boondocking beast. Sure it was no 850 Freeride, but it only cost me a track and set of skis!!

Tracks, skis, and setup can make the world of a difference on any color/brand of 150-160hp sled. I applaud the OEM's that allow you to snowcheck a new sled with the track you want and ski combination. So those buyers that truly buy for their conditions, and not what they think they ride in their head, can get what fits their needs.

Yup, a Renegade X 900T with 1.6" Ice Cobra with Pilot 6.9's sounds like a near perfect replacement for my Apex XTX. But other the the glaring fact that it's 300lbs lighter, what did I gain? Warranty, fresh hardware, new forum to follow, etc. There is no wrong answer. Should I have bought a Sidewinder XTX? Probably not, I'm too afraid to open my XTX up in most situations. It's way faster than most of the places I ride can handle. And I outrun all my buddies currently. They know my balls are not big enough to really abuse that sled.

So take the blinders off, and really look at what makes a sled do what you want to do. I know my buddies giggle watching me launch my trail tank out of a deep ditch, where they know they will be pulling my #*$&@ out. They stopped giggling as I ran circles around their stuck renegades this winter. (I'm so glad I have video proof, as those stories would be left open to embellishment over the next years as we wait for the next winter, like the one of 18/19)

Heads up Comparison Apex XTX 144" x 1.6" and Freeride 137" x 2" in identical conditions. Of course the Freeride is setup for max transfer and was a wheelie machine. But I wouldn't want to trail ride it all day. What a perfect day to play with it on the lake! I could not stop giggling in my helmet! We threw the 129" x 1.25" MXZ-X and 120" x 1.25" GSX for deep snow fodder!

I have not tried the 1.6 cobra track and that is certainly food for thought. I always have used 6 inch wide C&A pro skis on all my 4 stroke Yamahas. I think my XTX with the 144 1.25 track goes good in deep snow with the 6in wide skis. We have had a near record amount of snow this year in Northern Maine. There is still 3ft on the ground now. When I get my camp built I'll have 3miles of boondocking to get to the trail and I don't want issues getting stuck. I may wait another year and see how the 900t does with the 137 1.6 track does. Maybe when the weight difference is figured in perhaps the xtx and 900t will be equal in deep snow.

 

[number1kyster]

I have not tried the 1.6 cobra track and that is certainly food for thought. I always have used 6 inch wide C&A pro skis on all my 4 stroke Yamahas. I think my XTX with the 144 1.25 track goes good in deep snow with the 6in wide skis. We have had a near record amount of snow this year in Northern Maine. There is still 3ft on the ground now. When I get my camp built I'll have 3miles of boondocking to get to the trail and I don't want issues getting stuck. I may wait another year and see how the 900t does with the 137 1.6 track does. Maybe when the weight difference is figured in perhaps the xtx and 900t will be equal in deep snow.

FYI, Ski-Doo no longer offers the 1.6 as a spring order option. I heard they had tons of issues with delamination. The biggest track they offer in the Renegade is a 1.5 ice ripper.

 

[biffdotorg]

FYI, Ski-Doo no longer offers the 1.6 as a spring order option. I heard they had tons of issues with delamination. The biggest track they offer in the Renegade is a 1.5 ice ripper.

And the 1.5" options are fine. Camso did come out with the 1.5" Ice Storm as well based on the the 1.5" Storm. I have heard good things about that track as they say it is more durable etc. As many were saying the cobra lugs would fold over. It must have been true, as they are pushing it hard. And the only real reason the Ice cobra is 1.6" is due to the .10" studs. Other than that, it's a 1.5" track.

If I had to make a choice now, I may consider the Ice Storm for that stronger lug. Although, in my case, the Ice Cobra with thousands of miles is actually holding up well. It seems like only yesterday that I was shipping off my 1.25" Ripsaw with 4000+ miles on it. Going, I hope I get that many miles out of this new Ice Cobra. And here I end the season with around 9700 miles on the ticker. I guess I got my wish.

Good luck everyone. PowerWasher season has reached Fargo!

 

[20/80]

I have not tried the 1.6 cobra track and that is certainly food for thought. I always have used 6 inch wide C&A pro skis on all my 4 stroke Yamahas. I think my XTX with the 144 1.25 track goes good in deep snow with the 6in wide skis. We have had a near record amount of snow this year in Northern Maine. There is still 3ft on the ground now. When I get my camp built I'll have 3miles of boondocking to get to the trail and I don't want issues getting stuck. I may wait another year and see how the 900t does with the 137 1.6 track does. Maybe when the weight difference is figured in perhaps the xtx and 900t will be equal in deep snow.

Well.... Coolio if you happen to purchase a new 900t in the near future there is some things you could do to the 900t to be more acceptable on TY from some of the Winder and Viper guy's and I really believe this will work, I have seen this first hand, first after your purchase of the 900t take the machine to a professional paint shop, get them to completely sand the paint clean off the 900t, then color match the new paint to the same color as the Yamaha SRX, completely paint the cab and chassis this color, then remove all the doo's emblems replacing them with tuning forks emblems, purchase high quality Yamaha stickers and carefully apply them in the proper position on the cab and chassis for all to see, you may want to add a few extra to be safe, then purchase and bolt on a set of tuner ski's and WHOLA!!!! your now riding a f#%king Yamaha!!!! you will totally redeem yourself and keep your true blue status and would not have to move to the doo forum, THIS REALLY WORKS, this should help with the backlash also,

 

[TPAY243]

You have no clue dude,what do you do all night when you dream all day.

 

[coolio]

Well.... Coolio if you happen to purchase a new 900t in the near future there is some things you could do to the 900t to be more acceptable on TY from some of the Winder and Viper guy's and I really believe this will work, I have seen this first hand, first after your purchase of the 900t take the machine to a professional paint shop, get them to completely sand the paint clean off the 900t, then color match the new paint to the same color as the Yamaha SRX, completely paint the cab and chassis this color, then remove all the doo's emblems replacing them with tuning forks emblems, purchase high quality Yamaha stickers and carefully apply them in the proper position on the cab and chassis for all to see, you may want to add a few extra to be safe, then purchase and bolt on a set of tuner ski's and WHOLA!!!! your now riding a f#%king Yamaha!!!! you will totally redeem yourself and keep your true blue status and would not have to move to the doo forum, THIS REALLY WORKS, this should help with the backlash also,

Too funny! You're gonna make em hate me even more!

 

[Snorunner]

I believed that at one time as well. Ran 1" tracks on the old trailing arm Yamahas, bought the Phazer with 1.25 and Apex GT had the 1.325 on it. Put the 1.5 on the Phazer, and 1.6 on the Apex and never looked back. Combined that's over 17.000 miles on tracks bigger than 1.5" with no abnormal hyfax wear in MN and MI. Wisconsin trails are really not much different than the Snirt we ride in MN early and late season. My skid was filled with sand this weekend.

And to top that off, I have only installed scratchers on my most recent Apex! The dupont hyfax and stock wheels on the XTX work fine on wear. And the Phazer had Duponts with low snow wheel kit. I burned a set of hyfax every other season or season and a half that equates to about 3000 miles. With that mileage, I gave up on the 1.25" adage. The very minute I installed the 1.5" freeride or the 1.6" ice cobra I realized how much power I was loosing to track spin in all conditions. So much track spin on the XTX, that it will throw your mileage off!! Full studs are another way of course. As always, only you know the conditions you ride in. I'm just saying for me, there is no reason to go less than 1.5 anymore.

I bought A new Vector XTX in 2017 for my Wife. Sold her old sled on a Saturday morning. Drove 80 miles to the nearest leftover 2016 Vector XTX. Bought the sled they rolled it out of the service dept and found out they had it listed wrong on their website it was an XTX 1.75 Thought I was buying an XTX as listed which meant 1.25 Ripsaw. In season so loaded it up. The next season I blew up my modified Cat 2 Stroke. It was my first Trip to the UP. Got home told my Wife I was tired of working on my sled. Keep in mind I have been fixing things for forty plus years. So I found another leftover 2017 Vector XTX. This time it was an 1.25 Ripsaw. Different Dealer. When buying it I complained to the dealer about the other dealer listing the previous one wrong. He asked me why I would not want the 1.75 track. Based on all the previous years experience. With the Ripsaw 1.25 on my Cat. I told him it was too much track for the groomed trails that I have all ways been on. After this season I was glad to have it as I told my wife the 2017 was hers now because it was prettiest due to all the Blue Accent. So the 1.75 became mine. So long story short after this season glad to have the 1.75 Backcountry. Sounds like Goldilocks and the three bears LOL! But if I have the funds I would highly consider the 1.5 Ice Storm. Or Igrip studs in my Backcountry.

 

[1320]

I bought A new Vector XTX in 2017 for my Wife. Sold her old sled on a Saturday morning. Drove 80 miles to the nearest leftover 2016 Vector XTX. Bought the sled they rolled it out of the service dept and found out they had it listed wrong on their website it was an XTX 1.75 Thought I was buying an XTX as listed which meant 1.25 Ripsaw. In season so loaded it up. The next season I blew up my modified Cat 2 Stroke. It was my first Trip to the UP. Got home told my Wife I was tired of working on my sled. Keep in mind I have been fixing things for forty plus years. So I found another leftover 2017 Vector XTX. This time it was an 1.25 Ripsaw. Different Dealer. When buying it I complained to the dealer about the other dealer listing the previous one wrong. He asked me why I would not want the 1.75 track. Based on all the previous years experience. With the Ripsaw 1.25 on my Cat. I told him it was too much track for the groomed trails that I have all ways been on. After this season I was glad to have it as I told my wife the 2017 was hers now because it was prettiest due to all the Blue Accent. So the 1.75 became mine. So long story short after this season glad to have the 1.75 Backcountry. Sounds like Goldilocks and the three bears LOL! But if I have the funds I would highly consider the 1.5 Ice Storm. Or Igrip studs in my Backcountry.

 

[1320]

This reply is not to anybody in particular on this thread but I will say I have Ridden Yamaha‘s for 15 years without many problems but I’m disappointed with the 2016 Yamaha Apex that I bought brand new which rides horribly hard. Being forced to spend over $2000 in shocks and skis to make it ride better which I am still not happy with yet is very disheartening and the crap update they gave on the shock package was laughable at the least . It seems like if you’re spending that kind of money on a snowmobile you shouldn’t have to really put any money into it ,that being said I rode a couple of skidoo’s that were brand new this year and they ride fantastic and there is not a thing you have to do to improve on them ,I think Yamaha is just pushing these sleds out with Very little good engineering and design. The skid on my Apex is to say the least very chintzy compared to a 13,14 or 15 and it’s very obvious ,big deal they say they save 10 pounds. You can never beat the Yamaha engines but the rest of snowmobile cannot compare to many of Skidoos that they are coming out with. I love the power and dependability of my Apex and hate to give it up but the handling and Comfort is less than satisfactory