Feeling Guilty

[Al Bundy]

The book says 3qts but I usually end up adding a little more to get it up to the top line on the dipstick.

Where are you at in Maine? I'm near Damariscotta, midcoast.

 

[crk1333]

I feel pretty much the same way you do. Although a 16 Apex with 8000 Miles. I think I'll be Sno checking a 2020 Enduro 900 or 900t. I'm hoping to do a demo this Sunday in Munising to decide. I'll be getting rid of a renegade so I'll still be 2 Ski-Doo to 2 Yamaha.

If Yamaha comes out with something in 2021 the enduro can become my friends and family sled and I will still have my Apex

My Apex is not going anywhere but you have to love the ease-of-use and accessories for the Skidoo as well as low noise. I'm not knocking the Sidewinder, I have ridden a Viper and Sidewinder many times they just are not for me.

Last week I rode a buddy's 19 Ski Doo Renegade Enduro with the 900 Ace turbo and I really liked it a lot! I've been a loyal Yamaha rider for 30 yrs owning countless sleds but I am quite disappointed with any new Yamacat sleds. I love my 14 Apex XTX but I really don't care for the Yamacat Winder and its issues. The Doo 4 stroke was smooth, powerful, comfortable, and steered great. He gets 20mpg+ all the time! It has an awesome seat, seat position, and bars. The luggage and fuel can system is awesome. You can't put anything on a winder tunnel or it will bend. I've got 9k miles on my Apex and I will need to replace it eventually. If the enduro came with a 146 inch track I may have already ordered a new one. I almost felt ashamed at the Doo dealer, lol. What is Yamaha going to offer? What does a guy like me do?

 

[mikextx]

if you don't think anyone is bashing Yamaha on this site you need to read more it is everywhere. the OP wants to get a Doo go get one Yamaha doesn't have a sled he likes then go buy the one you do like. To say Yamaha let him down because they made a sled and he don't like it. to say the reason is because of cat quality? really? my friend has one and it was hard to work on and had some issues. well my apex was hard to work on till I learned how it went together too and I had the invest 1700 in my XTX to make it the sled I wanted. do I blame Yamaha no it is my personal preference. NO,But don't come on here and try to tell me the sidewinder is a piece of junk and not worth the time of day just because it is not your cup of tea. It took a little bit to get it dialed in for me but now I wouldn't change it for any other sled on the market. maybe he is just to used to Yamaha having the same cassis for the last 16 years that learning a new one is so foreign that they cant figure it out. I would bet they are the same people that couldn't stop saying Yamaha has not changed the apex in 16 years and now because they didn't call them personally and spec build a sled just for them they are going to bash what they did produce.

. Nope, mostly people are bashing Arctic Cats with Yamaha engines. To believe thats an actual Yamaha Snowmobile is delusional

 

[20/80]

. Nope, mostly people are bashing Arctic Cats with Yamaha engines. To believe thats an actual Yamaha Snowmobile is delusional

You know your 100% right, that's what some riders are kinda feeling and giving there opinions about, there was some hope that Yamaha would put out a 2 stroke engine there was talk of a 880 here on the forum before the release which sparked some interest, but it would be hard for Yamaha to introduced a new 2 stroke because they would have to use it in some other product to justify it, like in a ATV or SXS, there is just no place for a 2 stroke other than a snowmobile in Yamaha's line up that I could think of, Yamaha likes to use their power sport engines in other products, that's why they like the 4 strokes. I know BRP has a 600 and a 850 pretty much for snowmobile only but they always did, they stuck to 2 strokes and slowly introduced 4 strokes later using them in sxs's so I don't think Yamaha will build their own 2 stroke engine for a sled, but it would attract more buying customers and keep some of our own true blue's from looking else where.

 

[whitedust1]

Thru all the discussion about skidoo interest on several different topics I have never seen so many members now considering the 900t in the Renegade line up including myself. Imo Skidoo put together the ultimate 4s trail sled with the 900t Enduro and why I bought one. Would I have preferred a Yamaha sled and engine in the 150hp 4s? .... hell yes! BUT sadly Yamaha doesn’t participate in this 4s market segment and neither does AC. The 900t Enduro grabbed me and since I have become a member on dootalk as some have advised on this site to do I have discovered many are prior Apex owners have bought 2019s 900ts and are about to buy 2020s most like me are buying Enduros some are buying Renegades in different shock packages but the 900t is common to all. Did Yamaha miss the boat in this market segment? Yes they did. Discontinuing the Apex with no replacement was a HUGE mistake. Would I have purchased a 2019 Apex ?... Idk but I sure would have considered it. I do know the Sidewinder and Viper are not for me but I liked my 2012 Apex xtx a lot but stuff happens and miles keep adding up so it was my time to move on and the Enduro 900t stood alone in its market segment. I get where theses members are coming from and many Yamaha users are thinking just like them.

 

[TPAY243]

Dude give it a rest, this is one Yamaha member who doesn't like them or really care what Ski Doo has to offer, i don't drink the kool aid. You are really the only one that's on this YAMAHA fourm bragging about your 900t and how Yamaha missed the market. You are the one who bought the Ski Doo turbo Sled that can't get out of it's own way. I drove one and I know how they handle and drive. I was not in the least bit impressed.

 

[Northshore]

Dude give it a rest, this is one Yamaha member who doesn't like them or really care what Ski Doo has to offer, i don't drink the kool aid. You are really the only one that's on this YAMAHA fourm bragging about your 900t and how Yamaha missed the market. You are the one who bought the Ski Doo turbo Sled that can't get out of it's own way. I drove one and I know how they handle and drive. I was not in the least bit impressed.

Sorry but you two need to go get a room...or at least go for a beer...

 

[TPAY243]

Ya maybe but go over to Doo Talk and start bragging up a Sidewinder or any other Yamaha for that matter and see where it gets ya.

 

[whitedust1]

Sorry but you two need to go get a room...or at least go for a beer...

Yep I’m fine with a beer still lov my Yamahas always will but when there’s a better beer I’ll try that too. None of this tpay banter bothers me I welcome all opinions on TY been a member for many years. I get where the OP is coming from not a problem for me. Lol

 

[whitedust1]

Ya maybe but go over to Doo Talk and start bragging up a Sidewinder or any other Yamaha for that matter and see where it gets ya.

Just so you know tpay lots of questions on dootalk from Yamaha users wanting more information comparing Apex to 900t. Got to say dootalk is very welcoming to opinions from other 4s brands take your own advice and express yourself on dootalk won’t be objections they’ll hear you out. To you onTY any reference to competitive brands is bragging. Ok with me but information is just information I don’t label it anything more than that.

 

[coolio]

Thru all the discussion about skidoo interest on several different topics I have never seen so many members now considering the 900t in the Renegade line up including myself. Imo Skidoo put together the ultimate 4s trail sled with the 900t Enduro and why I bought one. Would I have preferred a Yamaha sled and engine in the 150hp 4s? .... hell yes! BUT sadly Yamaha doesn’t participate in this 4s market segment and neither does AC. The 900t Enduro grabbed me and since I have become a member on dootalk as some have advised on this site to do I have discovered many are prior Apex owners have bought 2019s 900ts and are about to buy 2020s most like me are buying Enduros some are buying Renegades in different shock packages but the 900t is common to all. Did Yamaha miss the boat in this market segment? Yes they did. Discontinuing the Apex with no replacement was a HUGE mistake. Would I have purchased a 2019 Apex ?... Idk but I sure would have considered it. I do know the Sidewinder and Viper are not for me but I liked my 2012 Apex xtx a lot but stuff happens and miles keep adding up so it was my time to move on and the Enduro 900t stood alone in its market segment. I get where theses members are coming from and many Yamaha users are thinking just like them.

Do you miss having a 144 inch track? When I went from a 136 to a 144 I said I'm never go back to a shorter track. We just get a ton of snow in Northern Maine and I like to go off trail some. Honestly this is my biggest hold up from buying a 900t. It's too bad that some people can't sit back and honestly think about some of the very valid points we have brought up.

 

[whitedust1]

Do you miss having a 144 inch track? When I went from a 136 to a 144 I said I'm never go back to a shorter track. We just get a ton of snow in Northern Maine and I like to go off trail some. Honestly this is my biggest hold up from buying a 900t. It's too bad that some people can't sit back and honestly think about some of the very valid points we have brought up.

I had an Attak 136 GT and then bought Apex xtx mostly for eps and the 144. I do need to cross a lake and ride open hayfield then unplowed FRs to reach WI groomed trails in Phelps WI so sled flotation is important to me too. Everyone including me stopped riding powder with trail sleds 136 or 144 wouldn’t make a difference with 3-4 feet of powder only mountain sleds ventured out on open fields and unplowed FRs. I did ok with 136 Attak on powder just had more confidence with 144 xtx. My thoughts are I’ll be fine in 2 feet of powder with my Enduro 900t especially when FRs get packed down a bit. Another hazard this season is embankments were huge easily 10 feet high no one crossing those either in or out. It probably breaks out 20% powder 80% groomed trails for me so 136 Enduro 900t should do well in a typical northern WI winter season.

 

[biffdotorg]

So many features of sleds that make them more or less capable are not brand specific. I am horribly guilty of putting on the blinders and believing that 90% of Yamahas were trail tanks, and that is where they should be rode.

To this point, I assumed that when/if I replaced my Apex XTX, it would be for something in the 150-160hp range in a lighter, more modern chassis. Renegade, Switchback assault, AC Cross country etc. 800cc seemed obvious, as there were no real 4-stroke replacements other than the Sidewinder.

The Renegade 900T seemed like an obvious choice as "light" seemed "right" as all the mountain guys preached. But being a MN flatlander, we come to admit that we ride trails and have never had the luxury of deep snow to ride. Other than the once a winter dump for a day. Then the true trail tank showed it's colors, and a 144" 1.25 track with stock skis would push through snow more than float no matter what.

Then some revelation came to be. 4500 miles ago, I put on the 1.6" Ice Cobra track. (I know, I preach about this on 50% of my posts, but bare with me) All of a sudden it allowed the trail tank to "push" through way more snow. I was not afraid to park off the edge of the groomed trail, or take the road approach where the groomer had not gone. Or go rip an untracked pasture that we knew was 3ft deep. It plowed, but it went through better than any 121 or 137 with stock track.

After one trip to Wyoming with my new found love of a track. I decided to buy Apex Mountain skis I had found on Ebay for dirtball pricing. They have sat in my attic waiting for that next trip to the mountains. Then came the winter of 2018/2019. Weekend after weekend of snow dumps giving us more untracked powder than I had ever seen in MN. The mountain skis came out, and transformed the Trail Tank into a 730+lb boondocking beast. Sure it was no 850 Freeride, but it only cost me a track and set of skis!!

Tracks, skis, and setup can make the world of a difference on any color/brand of 150-160hp sled. I applaud the OEM's that allow you to snowcheck a new sled with the track you want and ski combination. So those buyers that truly buy for their conditions, and not what they think they ride in their head, can get what fits their needs.

Yup, a Renegade X 900T with 1.6" Ice Cobra with Pilot 6.9's sounds like a near perfect replacement for my Apex XTX. But other the the glaring fact that it's 300lbs lighter, what did I gain? Warranty, fresh hardware, new forum to follow, etc. There is no wrong answer. Should I have bought a Sidewinder XTX? Probably not, I'm too afraid to open my XTX up in most situations. It's way faster than most of the places I ride can handle. And I outrun all my buddies currently. They know my balls are not big enough to really abuse that sled.

So take the blinders off, and really look at what makes a sled do what you want to do. I know my buddies giggle watching me launch my trail tank out of a deep ditch, where they know they will be pulling my #*$&@ out. They stopped giggling as I ran circles around their stuck renegades this winter. (I'm so glad I have video proof, as those stories would be left open to embellishment over the next years as we wait for the next winter, like the one of 18/19)

Heads up Comparison Apex XTX 144" x 1.6" and Freeride 137" x 2" in identical conditions. Of course the Freeride is setup for max transfer and was a wheelie machine. But I wouldn't want to trail ride it all day. What a perfect day to play with it on the lake! I could not stop giggling in my helmet! We threw the 129" x 1.25" MXZ-X and 120" x 1.25" GSX for deep snow fodder!

 

[cannondale27]

So many features of sleds that make them more or less capable are not brand specific. I am horribly guilty of putting on the blinders and believing that 90% of Yamahas were trail tanks, and that is where they should be rode.

To this point, I assumed that when/if I replaced my Apex XTX, it would be for something in the 150-160hp range in a lighter, more modern chassis. Renegade, Switchback assault, AC Cross country etc. 800cc seemed obvious, as there were no real 4-stroke replacements other than the Sidewinder.

The Renegade 900T seemed like an obvious choice as "light" seemed "right" as all the mountain guys preached. But being a MN flatlander, we come to admit that we ride trails and have never had the luxury of deep snow to ride. Other than the once a winter dump for a day. Then the true trail tank showed it's colors, and a 144" 1.25 track with stock skis would push through snow more than float no matter what.

Then some revelation came to be. 4500 miles ago, I put on the 1.6" Ice Cobra track. (I know, I preach about this on 50% of my posts, but bare with me) All of a sudden it allowed the trail tank to "push" through way more snow. I was not afraid to park off the edge of the groomed trail, or take the road approach where the groomer had not gone. Or go rip an untracked pasture that we knew was 3ft deep. It plowed, but it went through better than any 121 or 137 with stock track.

After one trip to Wyoming with my new found love of a track. I decided to buy Apex Mountain skis I had found on Ebay for dirtball pricing. They have sat in my attic waiting for that next trip to the mountains. Then came the winter of 2018/2019. Weekend after weekend of snow dumps giving us more untracked powder than I had ever seen in MN. The mountain skis came out, and transformed the Trail Tank into a 730+lb boondocking beast. Sure it was no 850 Freeride, but it only cost me a track and set of skis!!

Tracks, skis, and setup can make the world of a difference on any color/brand of 150-160hp sled. I applaud the OEM's that allow you to snowcheck a new sled with the track you want and ski combination. So those buyers that truly buy for their conditions, and not what they think they ride in their head, can get what fits their needs.

Yup, a Renegade X 900T with 1.6" Ice Cobra with Pilot 6.9's sounds like a near perfect replacement for my Apex XTX. But other the the glaring fact that it's 300lbs lighter, what did I gain? Warranty, fresh hardware, new forum to follow, etc. There is no wrong answer. Should I have bought a Sidewinder XTX? Probably not, I'm too afraid to open my XTX up in most situations. It's way faster than most of the places I ride can handle. And I outrun all my buddies currently. They know my balls are not big enough to really abuse that sled.

So take the blinders off, and really look at what makes a sled do what you want to do. I know my buddies giggle watching me launch my trail tank out of a deep ditch, where they know they will be pulling my #*$&@ out. They stopped giggling as I ran circles around their stuck renegades this winter. (I'm so glad I have video proof, as those stories would be left open to embellishment over the next years as we wait for the next winter, like the one of 18/19)

Heads up Comparison Apex XTX 144" x 1.6" and Freeride 137" x 2" in identical conditions. Of course the Freeride is setup for max transfer and was a wheelie machine. But I wouldn't want to trail ride it all day. What a perfect day to play with it on the lake! I could not stop giggling in my helmet! We threw the 129" x 1.25" MXZ-X and 120" x 1.25" GSX for deep snow fodder!

That’s Awesome!

 

[20/80]

Yep.. I have the 16 xtx with the 1.75 146 track and VK pro skis, these so called tanks can go through 2-3ft of the fresh stuff without a sweat, I don't have the comfy of the groomed trails in my area so if you want to go snowmobiling you make and break your own trails, my apex tank does this pretty easy I think, that 850 in your vid sure can get on top of the snow though, wonder how the t900 would be in the deep stuff? Doo's like to run 16" width track footprint with the 137 that does make a difference and less tippy, it just may be the same amount of rubber on the ground as a 144 15" ???