First Long ride Out

[Dalton]

Hey there guys,

Today my father and I put on quite a few miles on our phazers. I have a 2007 Phazer GT while my dad has a 2008 Phazer Fx (I think)

Background info:

On my sled, I installed a USB pluggin that I found through this website. I also installed some LED glows for under the sled for night time use just to make it look cool.
I was already aware that these additions would draw on the battery even when not in use. Whenever the sled was not being rode I had it plugged in to the battery tender.

This morning we got out and rode for about 3-4 hours or so and stopped for lunch. During those 3 hours I had my Iphone5 plugged in to my USB pluggin.
I've done it before out on rides for 1-2 hours and thought it would be fine leaving it plugged in for a little while longer.

Well we stopped for lunch which took us about 45 minutes. I go back out to start my sled and the fuel pump DID turn on like normal, then I went to go turn it over and all I got was "click".
This battery is brand new this year. The first thing we tried doing is jumping it. That didn't do anything.

While I was getting a bit upset I remembered watching a video of a phazer being pull started with a rope. Luckily I had one with me.
I did get her started by pull starting it. So we just thought that the battery some how died from my Phone being charged with the USB cord for those 3-4 hours.

I got her home and plugged it in right away. Left it like that for a good hour to and hour and a half.
Went to go start it and ... "click" Does the same thing..

I can't see how the battery can be completely dead just from that. Is there any other possibility that something isn't performing right?

On the bright side it was a great day out on the trails. Best time yet!

Thank you for any input that you may have!


Also does anyone have a method to straight out a left steering knuckle? I recently slightly bent mine....

 

[porkchop]

Checked the starter or starter relay???
Sounds like starter went or loosened up.

 

[Gone Blue]

It could just be that the battery was marginal and is about done. I would think an autoparts store could load test it like a car battery?

G.B.

 

[cannondale27]

Load test battery but if you tried jumping it and that didnt work it is either a bad starter solenoid(thing with two big red wires on it on side of battery) which is very common,bad connections or your starter housing spun. Eliminate all those one at a time and you will find your issue.

You can eliminate solenoid from the equation by jumping across the two big red wires with key on.

Spunstarter check it by looking at it and the little green marks

Connections just remove,clean and dielectric grease all the main connections

 

[Dalton]

Checked the starter or starter relay???
Sounds like starter went or loosened up.

In the process of finding where to look for this,

Thank you!

It could just be that the battery was marginal and is about done. I would think an autoparts store could load test it like a car battery?

G.B.

That could be a possibility.. When I go to turn it over the computer module turns off and restarts.. Could this be because the battery is bad like you said? I can't figure out why else the computer module would shut off and turn back on after I try to start it? (The battery is fully charged now this morning)

Load test battery but if you tried jumping it and that didnt work it is either a bad starter solenoid(thing with two big red wires on it on side of battery) which is very common,bad connections or your starter housing spun. Eliminate all those one at a time and you will find your issue.

You can eliminate solenoid from the equation by jumping across the two big red wires with key on.

Spunstarter check it by looking at it and the little green marks

Connections just remove,clean and dielectric grease all the main connections

I have not yet load tested the battery.. And yes I did try jumping it yesterday and also charged the battery the entire night and it is fully charged now and still doesn't turn over.

Connections are clean.

I tried jumping the solenoid with a pair of bare pliers and when I first did it nothing happened. No spark when I touched the positive and negative with the pliers.

Now when I went to do it a 2nd time.. The fuel pump wont turn on.. and when I go to touch the positive and negative on the solenoid it sparks like crazy. I can't even touch it long enough to start it..

I'm researching on how to view the start bolts lined up like you talked about before.. Just makes me concerned now that the fuel pump doesn't run when I turn the key..

Thanks again for any help!

 

[Mooseman]

Are you sure you're jumping the solenoid correctly or the right one? Follow the big red wire that goes from the battery to the solenoid. The other one you should be jumping to is the other similar terminal on the opposite side of the solenoid. If the starter still refuses to turn, then the starter itself would be suspect. You don't need to turn on the key to do this.

If the fuel pump is not coming on, check the fuses and the relay. If the sled is outside and it's really cold, the relay is a regular suspect and should be replaced with the updated solid state relay, part # 8GN-81950-00-00.

 

[Dalton]

Are you sure you're jumping the solenoid correctly or the right one? Follow the big red wire that goes from the battery to the solenoid. The other one you should be jumping to is the other similar terminal on the opposite side of the solenoid. If the starter still refuses to turn, then the starter itself would be suspect. You don't need to turn on the key to do this.

If the fuel pump is not coming on, check the fuses and the relay. If the sled is outside and it's really cold, the relay is a regular suspect and should be replaced with the updated solid state relay, part # 8GN-81950-00-00.

I checked the connections again and the fuel pump does work now.

I tried my brothers battery from his 2008 phazer that has had no problems and with his battery it still does not start..

When I go to jump the solenoid like you said it just sparks like crazy without the key on. So there is current going through there.

All fuses check out .. As far as the relay it looks good.

Is the starter the next thing to look at if the battery and solenoid check out ?

Thanks for the quick reply

 

[cannondale27]

Pull out the starter.

 

[yamahas]

Pull out the starter.

x2

http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=64045

 

[Mooseman]

Yep, the starter is either shot or the bolts have backed out and it's out of alignment. It may be salvageable by lining up the green marks with the marks on the starter body and bolting it back together with Loctite. This thread explains how to get it out and fix up the starter.
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=64045

But, before putting the front end back on, try the starter on the motor to be sure it will work.

If you want to cheat, instead of taking the whole front end off, you can cut off the cast boss on the bottom of the engine to get the starter out. I did it that way with absolutely no consequence.

 

[Dalton]

Okay thanks guys! Very fast replies!

I will most likely take the starter out from the link you gave me mooseman.

One quick question that my dad and I were talking about is

If the starter is bad how come we don't hear any clicking or spinning or any noise coming from the starter?

Similar to a vehicle with the fly wheel and the starter wheel that makes the motor turn to crank.. I understand this is different but does this not apply to our phazers?

 

[Mooseman]

It's because the body of the starter is out of alignment and can't turn. Power is still getting to it trying to turn the stator but it can't and also drawing more power in the process (hence the big spark). There is no solenoid on the starter so no click like on cars.

 

[Dalton]

Ahh Okay, thank you.

Taking the front end apart right now.. Via the thread you linked me to.

Will update as I go with questions and comments.

 

[Dalton]

Im at the point where I remove the front frame from the aluminum body.

How many bolts are supposed to come out?

I got what seems to be all of the bolts out from the front frame and I can barely move it..

10 bolts out so far...

 

[yamahas]

I think if I remember right there are 6 on each side. You have too loosen the rad to get to a few of them.

Make sure the sled is up on blocks before you remove the rest. Also make sure the blocks are not holing the front end and is actually holding the sled.