Red2003
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Old fuel is not lower in octane. Octane doesn't just go away or evaporate. Seafoam is a fuel stabilizer just like stabil and its definitely better to not introduce alcohol into your fuel system if you don't have to. Alcohol attracts water from inside the gas, but it also attracts water from outside the gas... like from the air. BTW, has anyone else had snowblower starting trouble on old gas?? Mine sets all summer and fires right up. Also my whacker likes old gas as well. Been using the same 2 gallon can of gas for 3 years.
sobfrogg
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Well I guess is should have stated.
In a letter from BP Amoco
Here is a direct quote from BP's technical bulletin
If you must store gasoline longer than 3 months, adding a fuel stabilizer to the gasoline such as STA-BIL additive or similar fuel stabilizing improver additive. Gasoline stored longer than several monts can loose octane and oxidize to form gum and varnish, which can foul the fuel system. Follow the additive package directions carefully. Store the fuel in a tightly sealed, legal approved fuel container, in a cool dry place.
Use any gasoline in the season in which it was purchased to help ensure peak engine preformance. Gasolines are seasonally blended to assure optimum preformance as climates change through out the year.
For example, spring, fall, and winter gasolines evaporate easier than summer gasolines to assure quick starts at cooler temperatures.
Summer gasolines evaporate less easily to prevent hot starting vapor lock when teperatures are warm. Summer gasolines may not start well durring the spring, fall, and winter. Spring, fall, and winter gasolines can cause hot starting and vapor lock problems durring the summer.
The letter also has info on what to do if you have to use Enleanment-oxygenated and reformulated gasolines in 2 strokes
Also how oxygenated fuels are bad for som seals in the fuel system.
Oh and yeh I do work in the industry. I would say over 60% of our customers that can not get their mowers, rimmers, saws,pumps, generators, blowers, snowthrowers, etc are due to fuel problems. IE old fuel.
In a letter from BP Amoco
Here is a direct quote from BP's technical bulletin
If you must store gasoline longer than 3 months, adding a fuel stabilizer to the gasoline such as STA-BIL additive or similar fuel stabilizing improver additive. Gasoline stored longer than several monts can loose octane and oxidize to form gum and varnish, which can foul the fuel system. Follow the additive package directions carefully. Store the fuel in a tightly sealed, legal approved fuel container, in a cool dry place.
Use any gasoline in the season in which it was purchased to help ensure peak engine preformance. Gasolines are seasonally blended to assure optimum preformance as climates change through out the year.
For example, spring, fall, and winter gasolines evaporate easier than summer gasolines to assure quick starts at cooler temperatures.
Summer gasolines evaporate less easily to prevent hot starting vapor lock when teperatures are warm. Summer gasolines may not start well durring the spring, fall, and winter. Spring, fall, and winter gasolines can cause hot starting and vapor lock problems durring the summer.
The letter also has info on what to do if you have to use Enleanment-oxygenated and reformulated gasolines in 2 strokes
Also how oxygenated fuels are bad for som seals in the fuel system.
Oh and yeh I do work in the industry. I would say over 60% of our customers that can not get their mowers, rimmers, saws,pumps, generators, blowers, snowthrowers, etc are due to fuel problems. IE old fuel.
BigDog05
VIP Member
Red2003: I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one.Old fuel does loose octane. When gasoline ages many of the performance and octane additives evaporate and leaves a fuel that will not perform the same as fresh fuel.
Stabilizer etc. keeps the fuel from forming gum. I don't know if it has any effect on saving octane.
I do know one thing, if you take a turbo sled for example and ran 110 octane @ 16lbs of boost on March 2005, I would not take the same sled out on December 20th 2005 and try to run that old tank of fuel empty. You may need a new engine. IMO
Stabilizer etc. keeps the fuel from forming gum. I don't know if it has any effect on saving octane.
I do know one thing, if you take a turbo sled for example and ran 110 octane @ 16lbs of boost on March 2005, I would not take the same sled out on December 20th 2005 and try to run that old tank of fuel empty. You may need a new engine. IMO
Red2003
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Sorry guys, misread the post. Fuel loses "octane rating" over time i.e. becomes more volitile. It didn't make sense to me that fuel would lose a chemical compound, but I see how it would become easier to burn and thus lose its "octane #". Thanks 
. But... my whacker will run a season #4 on the same gas just to make me feel good about myself
. But... my whacker will run a season #4 on the same gas just to make me feel good about myself 
Sodes
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I think sobfrogg is exactly correct.
I think sobfrogg is exactly correct. As a kid I had a summer job where I repaired garden equipment at a sears near Chicago. Nearly every problem with those small engines was related to fuel. Clogged jets, deteriated rubber carb and fuel pump diaphragms, corroded floats and gummed up crap that was in layers like the sediment of a lake bottom. IF you are too dense to do it yourself for god sakes have it done. I had a friend that always used the same BS clichés such as if it aint broke don't fix it, all I do is put gas in it and go, and there's no reason to drain the fuel. This also the guy that dropped out of HS and never went to college and is still scratching his head when on vacation when his sled never starts and he's blowing pistons by having his carb lean out. By the way stabil is not going to address moisture or the deteriation / oxidation of the rubber parts in your fuel system. Also, as the fuel evaporates the compents with the highest volatility evaporate first with the heavier-end hydrocarbons evaporating at a slower rate. The residue left behind is in part those heavier-end molecules.
I think sobfrogg is exactly correct. As a kid I had a summer job where I repaired garden equipment at a sears near Chicago. Nearly every problem with those small engines was related to fuel. Clogged jets, deteriated rubber carb and fuel pump diaphragms, corroded floats and gummed up crap that was in layers like the sediment of a lake bottom. IF you are too dense to do it yourself for god sakes have it done. I had a friend that always used the same BS clichés such as if it aint broke don't fix it, all I do is put gas in it and go, and there's no reason to drain the fuel. This also the guy that dropped out of HS and never went to college and is still scratching his head when on vacation when his sled never starts and he's blowing pistons by having his carb lean out. By the way stabil is not going to address moisture or the deteriation / oxidation of the rubber parts in your fuel system. Also, as the fuel evaporates the compents with the highest volatility evaporate first with the heavier-end hydrocarbons evaporating at a slower rate. The residue left behind is in part those heavier-end molecules.
impalapower
TY 4 Stroke God
Re: Storage and draining the gas
So many folks here get all wound up about saving the engine, what to do or not to do, and going to extreme measures. Just put the damn thing away and pull it out next season. Put some Seafoam in the gas and run it through the engine and you'll be fine. The engine will outlast the chassis regardless how bad you treat it.
Sodes said:
So many folks here get all wound up about saving the engine, what to do or not to do, and going to extreme measures. Just put the damn thing away and pull it out next season. Put some Seafoam in the gas and run it through the engine and you'll be fine. The engine will outlast the chassis regardless how bad you treat it.
Sodes
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Top-Ten TY Wives tale storage tips for your Yamaha 4-stroke
#10- It's a Yamaha; it don't need to be stored, just put gas in er and she'' fun fine next spring,
#9- Drive your awesome Yamaha 4-stoke in your garage, put 3 gallons of stabil in the tank, the stabile is chemically formerated to rastmazeropiymo your cunuten valves, that's it!!
#8- Store your awesome Yamaha 4-stroke with gerbil in the exhaust to keep moisture out (tip provided from Canada).
#7- Store it to the north of your garage with no direct sun.
#6- Store it to the south of your garage with a cover, sheep's wool preferably,
#5 The cover's the worse thing you can do unless you use lamb's wool harvested in the spring,
#4 I scrub mine with plumbers putty and bees wax and pack it with straw, I called Yamaha......that's what they recommend; there will be a service bulletin coming out according to my dealer.
#3 Sea foam I say, the stuff repaired a hole in my track and re-aligned my skis, cured my of the gout and I'm now a born again Christian; I love the seashore fresh taste of seafoam.
#2 Drain the gas replace with stabile, gerbil in the exhaust pack with straw grown next to your trailer in the sun with a cover on it made of lambs wool washed with sea foam and rinsed in a solution of plumbers putty and bees wax. Now that's how you store your Yamaha four stoke, service bulletin out in Dec 05'
#1 I don’t properly store the sled I just park it then complain about problems next fall.
Sodes
#10- It's a Yamaha; it don't need to be stored, just put gas in er and she'' fun fine next spring,
#9- Drive your awesome Yamaha 4-stoke in your garage, put 3 gallons of stabil in the tank, the stabile is chemically formerated to rastmazeropiymo your cunuten valves, that's it!!
#8- Store your awesome Yamaha 4-stroke with gerbil in the exhaust to keep moisture out (tip provided from Canada).
#7- Store it to the north of your garage with no direct sun.
#6- Store it to the south of your garage with a cover, sheep's wool preferably,
#5 The cover's the worse thing you can do unless you use lamb's wool harvested in the spring,
#4 I scrub mine with plumbers putty and bees wax and pack it with straw, I called Yamaha......that's what they recommend; there will be a service bulletin coming out according to my dealer.
#3 Sea foam I say, the stuff repaired a hole in my track and re-aligned my skis, cured my of the gout and I'm now a born again Christian; I love the seashore fresh taste of seafoam.
#2 Drain the gas replace with stabile, gerbil in the exhaust pack with straw grown next to your trailer in the sun with a cover on it made of lambs wool washed with sea foam and rinsed in a solution of plumbers putty and bees wax. Now that's how you store your Yamaha four stoke, service bulletin out in Dec 05'
#1 I don’t properly store the sled I just park it then complain about problems next fall.
Sodes
Red2003
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Hahahahahahaha,
I like it... a lot! Along those same lines, I remember getting my new Simmons skis and seeing the big warning on the paperwork, "Keep skis out of direct sunlight at all times!", "Sun rays will ruin your new skis!" What? I get the fact that light rays break down certain plastics over time, but give me a friggin' break. Every time I park the sled I'm going to cover up the skis? Doubtful. I guess on those bright, sunny days I can only run wooded trails to keep those $400.00 skis out of the sun. Whatever. Sleds are so tempermental and break so often anyway, I say keep them regularly maintained, be halfway smart about storage and beat the Hell out of them every chance you get!
I like it... a lot! Along those same lines, I remember getting my new Simmons skis and seeing the big warning on the paperwork, "Keep skis out of direct sunlight at all times!", "Sun rays will ruin your new skis!" What? I get the fact that light rays break down certain plastics over time, but give me a friggin' break. Every time I park the sled I'm going to cover up the skis? Doubtful. I guess on those bright, sunny days I can only run wooded trails to keep those $400.00 skis out of the sun. Whatever. Sleds are so tempermental and break so often anyway, I say keep them regularly maintained, be halfway smart about storage and beat the Hell out of them every chance you get!
impalapower
TY 4 Stroke God
Red, thats funny, didn't know that they had to be kept out of the sun. Guess you better ride only at night eh?
Red2003
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Yeah, isn't that crazy. Its the UHMW type of plastic that is not supposed to be exposed to direct sunlight. It literally says not to expose them to direct sunlight for ANY period of time. Any 
Oh man I just laughed and threw the paper away. They've seen a lot of sun and haven't exploded yet :shock: . Anyway, the point is that anything to excess is just that .... excess! Some old gas isn't going to be the end of an RX1. On a related note, I did the Seafoam direct inject shock treatment a few weeks ago and got a ton of junk out of there. I think I am going to start the season on a fresh tank of 100LL AV gas and see how she likes that. That stuff wll not leave any carbon in there. That I am sure of!!
Oh man I just laughed and threw the paper away. They've seen a lot of sun and haven't exploded yet :shock: . Anyway, the point is that anything to excess is just that .... excess! Some old gas isn't going to be the end of an RX1. On a related note, I did the Seafoam direct inject shock treatment a few weeks ago and got a ton of junk out of there. I think I am going to start the season on a fresh tank of 100LL AV gas and see how she likes that. That stuff wll not leave any carbon in there. That I am sure of!!
impalapower
TY 4 Stroke God
Some aviation gas eh? My science teacher back in high school had a 50's or 60's Pontiac Bonneville. Instead of running unleaded in it because leaded fuel was no longer available, he ran airplane gas in it, and it ran well.
Sled Dog said:
EXACTLY!
Me too!
Enough said....
Red2003
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Yeah Impala, I think I'll run a tank or two through to clean it out. That AV gas burns super clean and should take care of any carbon the Seafoam missed. I'll update in the Winter about my results. My 03 has 2000 miles and just started using oil, so it'll be a good test to see if cleaning out the carbon makes any difference. Last I checked AV gas wasn't much more then Super unleaded, so it'll be worth it to test. If I like it I just might stick with it!!!
