murphyslaw
Newbie
you could hit the napa and get a smaller electric fan and set it up to pull in air from the front cowl. moving some air under the cowling might help keep it cool.
air19
Pro
Murphyslaw - I really like this idea.
This way I don't have to mess with the wiring on the regular fan and trying to figure out how to make it work with the thermostat.
A second fan wired independently with a simply switch on the dash - sounds like a winner.
This way I don't have to mess with the wiring on the regular fan and trying to figure out how to make it work with the thermostat.
A second fan wired independently with a simply switch on the dash - sounds like a winner.
murphyslaw
Newbie
what might work best is a marine bilge blower. they are 12v and you can put it to 2" 3" or 4" ducting. and that way you can hook the ducting right to the cowl vent and have it blowing on the engine itself or towards the radiator.
check out www.westmarine.com or if you guys have a local boat shop.
check out www.westmarine.com or if you guys have a local boat shop.
trlbrkr
Extreme
While clearing blowdowns from the wind and ice the other night I was thinking of your over heating issue. I would start the motor on a steep incline and squeese the hoses to be sure you do not have air in the system . Adding engine ice is a good idea but you will need a refracometer to read the anti freeze mixture. Also if I remember correctly
you added your Simmons skis to the VK and they have neat cooling fins you can add on to the skis http://www.flexi-ski.com/CoolingFin.html
you added your Simmons skis to the VK and they have neat cooling fins you can add on to the skis http://www.flexi-ski.com/CoolingFin.html
eric3793
Pro
I just got back from a weekend at camp. We had similar conditions in the Maine mountains although we ended up getting about 7" of snow & sleet...really heavy stuff to groom. We have small groomers about 4' wide and 12' long with four blades and a large rear pan. In these conditions the VK was working fairly hard with long pulls up a mountain. I know my '00 Polaris WideTrack would not have been able to do it. The red '08 VK had no problem except when making turns off-trail to backtrack. I actually ratcheted the track briefly...no damage but I unhooked and drove out of a 18" deep groove 20" wide. This was extreme use because the snowpack is very dense due to the rain 3 weeks ago. I had help to get the groomer lifted a bit and tied a rope to drag it back to the trail. I had no overheat issues and it was over 20f outside. I wonder if picks make any difference? They may toss more snow on the heat exchanger. I have about 130 of Woody's 1 1/2" gold diggers. I also heard something about other Yamaha sleds needing to "burp" trapped air from the system by raising the rear of the machine and then the front of the machine while running to get all the trapped air out. Just a thought.
In any event the VK is a real workhorse. My only issue is the tippy nature and the firm rear suspension. I compared it to my friend's '03 AC 660 Widetrack and it was able to pull equally as well except this non-turbo had limited power. He is thinking about buying a new machine next year so the weekend gave him the oportunity to try the Yammy. The AC seemed much less tippy and the rear suspension was plush at speed when trail riding on bumpy ITS trails. We rode about 100 miles for lunch yesterday and I could not keep up with the AC in the bumps. This was a real eye-opener. We both carry small chain saws and rope in the rear rack and I nearly lost my gear it was so bumpy. He did not have an issue. We swapped machines and he is now undecided...turbo AC or Yamaha? I still like the VK and hopefuly I can get the rear skid a little softer.
In any event the VK is a real workhorse. My only issue is the tippy nature and the firm rear suspension. I compared it to my friend's '03 AC 660 Widetrack and it was able to pull equally as well except this non-turbo had limited power. He is thinking about buying a new machine next year so the weekend gave him the oportunity to try the Yammy. The AC seemed much less tippy and the rear suspension was plush at speed when trail riding on bumpy ITS trails. We rode about 100 miles for lunch yesterday and I could not keep up with the AC in the bumps. This was a real eye-opener. We both carry small chain saws and rope in the rear rack and I nearly lost my gear it was so bumpy. He did not have an issue. We swapped machines and he is now undecided...turbo AC or Yamaha? I still like the VK and hopefuly I can get the rear skid a little softer.
trlbrkr
Extreme
This is an interesting thread on reversing the fan direction http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=54037
Jack_Shaft
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I can't understand the stiff skid complaints.
I can bottom the '06 VK Rear skid on demand even with the FRA in the stiffest position and the preload cam jacked up to the max. I am 220lbs and with the battery and ball mount in the rear rack I add about another 35lbs.
My Skandic WT and my old Polaris WT were both stiffer than the ProCraption and although they weren't stellar in the bumps, they were more resistant to bottoming.
I have actually been trying to think up a way to stiffen up the rear skid, not soften it.
I can bottom the '06 VK Rear skid on demand even with the FRA in the stiffest position and the preload cam jacked up to the max. I am 220lbs and with the battery and ball mount in the rear rack I add about another 35lbs.
My Skandic WT and my old Polaris WT were both stiffer than the ProCraption and although they weren't stellar in the bumps, they were more resistant to bottoming.
I have actually been trying to think up a way to stiffen up the rear skid, not soften it.
Tom Lee
Extreme
There is a stiffer spring available for the rear shock. Several vk pro owners have had them installed at the same time as the updated pivots on older vk pro's (06 and 07). I have not had any feedback on how it affected ride quality yet but I will try to find out how and if it helped. I did not feel the need to change mine. I weigh 165 lbs and my gf is probably 105 lbs.
air19
Pro
Cooling Solutions
I'm working through my various fixes to my overheating problems.
1. I took the vent cover off a while back and had pictures of that.
2. Today my dealer set up a switch to my fan. In the off position the fan works like normal with the thermostat. In the on position the fan will run continuously. Anytime I think the conditions are marginal and could cause overheating I plan to turn the switch on and run the fan the whole day. Murphyslaw - looked at the possibility of a second fan wired independently but ran into space issues under the hood and tapping into the wiring of the existing fan turned out easier than expected.
3. I've ordered two types of ice scratchers. First a set of Slidekicks, thanks to Trlbrkr to be mounted on the rails. Second a set of cooling fins that attach to my Simmons Flexi-Skis, again thanks to Trlbrkr. I'll post pictures when I get these mounted.
Perhaps all of this is a bit of overkill, but given my grooming application the more cooling help I can apply I think the better.
Of course winter has returned to Vermont. We got 6 inches earlier today, and expect another 6 overnight. So I won't be able to replicate hardpack conditions for a while (I'm not complaining), but when hardpack returns you can bet I'll be out testing all of this.
And now here's my nomination for the most boring picture yet on this forum - my fan switch.
I'm working through my various fixes to my overheating problems.
1. I took the vent cover off a while back and had pictures of that.
2. Today my dealer set up a switch to my fan. In the off position the fan works like normal with the thermostat. In the on position the fan will run continuously. Anytime I think the conditions are marginal and could cause overheating I plan to turn the switch on and run the fan the whole day. Murphyslaw - looked at the possibility of a second fan wired independently but ran into space issues under the hood and tapping into the wiring of the existing fan turned out easier than expected.
3. I've ordered two types of ice scratchers. First a set of Slidekicks, thanks to Trlbrkr to be mounted on the rails. Second a set of cooling fins that attach to my Simmons Flexi-Skis, again thanks to Trlbrkr. I'll post pictures when I get these mounted.
Perhaps all of this is a bit of overkill, but given my grooming application the more cooling help I can apply I think the better.
Of course winter has returned to Vermont. We got 6 inches earlier today, and expect another 6 overnight. So I won't be able to replicate hardpack conditions for a while (I'm not complaining), but when hardpack returns you can bet I'll be out testing all of this.
And now here's my nomination for the most boring picture yet on this forum - my fan switch.
Attachments
YETI
Extreme
nice pic thin and so sexy
air19
Pro
Strange overheat again today
Today I went out packing the 15 inches of snow we have gotten in the last 2 days in Vermont. The first 5 inches were wet and dense, the last 10 inches were pure powder. Outside temperature around 27 degrees.
I thought about pulling my roller behind the VK Pro, but with that much powder I decided to just ride solo. I think this is the first time I've had the sled out without anything in tow, and the first time I've had it in high gear.
I was buzzing around my trails pushing through the deep snow that was up over the cowl at times. Nothing too crazy. I was happy with the stability of the sled most of the time. But about 2 hours into it, the sled started sliding off the trail, so I stopped and started going back and forth to get myself a better line back toward the center of the trail. I had the sled on a good tilt and after a couple of back and forths, the overheat light came on again.
Now I wasn't running my new fan, because I was riding through all this fresh powder and just assumed that plenty of it was getting to the coolers, and I wasn't pulling anything, and the RPMs were quite reasonable in high gear.
And it still overheats on me. I'm trying to understand now what is going wrong. Yes in that much deep snow I had a lot of snow on my front vents, but they weren't totally closed off. At the moment that it did overheat the sled was leaning quite a way to one side, and I went back and forth twice trying to change my direction, and I gunned it at least once for the short distance. The second time I gunned it, the overheat light shows it's ugly face. What is it about having the sled tilted and gunning it that causes this?
I ran the fan for the rest of the day, no further incidents, but I had smooth steady riding the rest of the time.
Confused again...
Today I went out packing the 15 inches of snow we have gotten in the last 2 days in Vermont. The first 5 inches were wet and dense, the last 10 inches were pure powder. Outside temperature around 27 degrees.
I thought about pulling my roller behind the VK Pro, but with that much powder I decided to just ride solo. I think this is the first time I've had the sled out without anything in tow, and the first time I've had it in high gear.
I was buzzing around my trails pushing through the deep snow that was up over the cowl at times. Nothing too crazy. I was happy with the stability of the sled most of the time. But about 2 hours into it, the sled started sliding off the trail, so I stopped and started going back and forth to get myself a better line back toward the center of the trail. I had the sled on a good tilt and after a couple of back and forths, the overheat light came on again.
Now I wasn't running my new fan, because I was riding through all this fresh powder and just assumed that plenty of it was getting to the coolers, and I wasn't pulling anything, and the RPMs were quite reasonable in high gear.
And it still overheats on me. I'm trying to understand now what is going wrong. Yes in that much deep snow I had a lot of snow on my front vents, but they weren't totally closed off. At the moment that it did overheat the sled was leaning quite a way to one side, and I went back and forth twice trying to change my direction, and I gunned it at least once for the short distance. The second time I gunned it, the overheat light shows it's ugly face. What is it about having the sled tilted and gunning it that causes this?
I ran the fan for the rest of the day, no further incidents, but I had smooth steady riding the rest of the time.
Confused again...
greg sellentin
Veteran
Air19,
did you read the thread on reversing fan direction? Maybe yours is installed in reverse also? Just a thought. It really shouldn't have overheated in those conditions. NO sled should overheat if you are not pulling anything. IMO
Also, there was talk of having to bleed air from the coolant system by lifting the front, then the back of the machine. maybe there is air in your coolant system. Just a thought, although I know you know the machine pretty well by now.
did you read the thread on reversing fan direction? Maybe yours is installed in reverse also? Just a thought. It really shouldn't have overheated in those conditions. NO sled should overheat if you are not pulling anything. IMO
Also, there was talk of having to bleed air from the coolant system by lifting the front, then the back of the machine. maybe there is air in your coolant system. Just a thought, although I know you know the machine pretty well by now.
Tom Lee
Extreme
Have you ever had the fan come on before the light comes on? It should start up and stop on its own before the light comes on. My rad fan cycles on and off when the need arises but I have yet to see the overheat indicator. There has to be a real problem with your cooling system somewhere for it to overheat in powder. Nothing gets hot in powder snow does it? Ill ask my dealer for possible causes.
The coolant system is supposed to purged of air during PDI. The place to bleed air out is under the seat on the right side under a rubber cover. This is the top side of the tunnel cooler.
The coolant system is supposed to purged of air during PDI. The place to bleed air out is under the seat on the right side under a rubber cover. This is the top side of the tunnel cooler.
air19
Pro
Thanks for the ideas Tom and Greg,
I definitely read the thread about the other Yamaha sledder who had their fan direction reversed coming out of the factory. I need to check mine. I haven't noticed when my fan comes on. I only notice it turning off when I kill the engine after it has overheated. So all I can say is that everything it has overheated the fan is running when I turn the engine off.
But with yesterday's pure powder conditions, I would have thought the fan should have been a non-factor. That's why I didn't even bother throwing out the always-on switch when I started out. I thought the liquid coolers should have done all the work, and in those conditions that the radiator/fan assist should have never been needed.
Your other comments about the cooling system still having air in it make more sense. Of course the dealer said they have checked this, but I'm beginning to wonder. I'll talk to my dealer today and push him to talk to Yamaha. I agree with all your comments that in those conditions with nothing in tow this should not have happened.
I definitely read the thread about the other Yamaha sledder who had their fan direction reversed coming out of the factory. I need to check mine. I haven't noticed when my fan comes on. I only notice it turning off when I kill the engine after it has overheated. So all I can say is that everything it has overheated the fan is running when I turn the engine off.
But with yesterday's pure powder conditions, I would have thought the fan should have been a non-factor. That's why I didn't even bother throwing out the always-on switch when I started out. I thought the liquid coolers should have done all the work, and in those conditions that the radiator/fan assist should have never been needed.
Your other comments about the cooling system still having air in it make more sense. Of course the dealer said they have checked this, but I'm beginning to wonder. I'll talk to my dealer today and push him to talk to Yamaha. I agree with all your comments that in those conditions with nothing in tow this should not have happened.
Jack_Shaft
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
There's something very wrong here air19... I am grooming frequently with our 06 VK Pro and haven't even seen the light flicker yet. I am towing a MM804 which has got to be a similar load to pull.
In low snow conditions, my hyfax will start to burn long before the light will flicker. I actually haven't seen the light yet at all on ours, but I did have to use the one bellypan/tunnel mounted ice scratcher to keep the sliders lubricated after a brief period of rain.
Our temps are -10*C to -20*C during the day right now and I am grooming primarily on the drifted hard frozen bays that we travel up here, typically maintaining speeds of 15-30km/h when grooming. These conditions should be even worse than yours... I just can't understand why you are having cooling issues unless you have an air bubble.
In low snow conditions, my hyfax will start to burn long before the light will flicker. I actually haven't seen the light yet at all on ours, but I did have to use the one bellypan/tunnel mounted ice scratcher to keep the sliders lubricated after a brief period of rain.
Our temps are -10*C to -20*C during the day right now and I am grooming primarily on the drifted hard frozen bays that we travel up here, typically maintaining speeds of 15-30km/h when grooming. These conditions should be even worse than yours... I just can't understand why you are having cooling issues unless you have an air bubble.
