QCRider
TY 4 Stroke Master
sandy8657 said:
Here's the problem with your statement. The insurance companies don't charge based on HP, we all wish they did. They charge based on displacement, and 1000cc's is the big number. My Friggin' Vector costs almost as much to insure as my RX-1. The only reason for any difference is the price of the sled. Why snowmobiles are still classifiied by displacement is a major beef of mine. Outboard motors are not and have not been forever. I know that Yamaha has been lobbying to get that changed, because it hurts 4 stroke owners. That's why they are pushing the whole 120 hp class and 150 hp class thing.
06RSRAGE
Expert
I just kept repeating 120 hp to my insurance comp. until they started repeating 120 hp at which time I said it's equal to a 600cc but its not a 600cc its a 4stroke That just confused them. they took 120 hp. 
06vectorgt
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
The smart companies have changed their policy to "sled value" as that is what it really is all about anyhow (METlife for one).
QCRider
TY 4 Stroke Master
06vectorgt said:
That's not a bad approach either. Horsepower still makes the most sense to me.
rightarm
TY 4 Stroke Master
QCRider said:
The problem with that is some company's will only insure to a specified value.
06vectorgt
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
QCRider said:
Replacement cost of sled is not their only concern, horse power is part of the likleyhood that they will be paying out.
OneBadWarrior
Expert
Horse Power potential...
The Apex motor is easily capable of 180 hp in factory trim. The sport bike version of the 1000cc R1 engine was tipping the hp scale at 180hp first year with FI. Yamaha could easily produce a 180 hp Apex if they wanted to with mild changes to the stock platform!!!
The Apex motor is easily capable of 180 hp in factory trim. The sport bike version of the 1000cc R1 engine was tipping the hp scale at 180hp first year with FI. Yamaha could easily produce a 180 hp Apex if they wanted to with mild changes to the stock platform!!!
rightarm
TY 4 Stroke Master
Re: Horse Power potential...
Yamaha needs to take the Watercraft engine (FX H.O) and management systems and put it in the Apex and Quite messin AROUND!
170 hp The FXâ„¢ HO is powered by a high output Yamaha MR-1â„¢ engine. This 1052cc four cylinder, four-stroke Yamaha marine engine delivers more power in a lighter package than any other full-size, four-stroke normally-aspirated watercraft in the industry.
Electronic Fuel Injection (EFI): Four individually adjustable throttle bodies, throttle position sensor (TPS) and intake air pressure and air temperature sensors supply the optimum air/fuel mixture. The results are a smooth, high power output with low fuel consumption and low exhaust emissions.
Specially Designed, One-piece Cylinder and Crankcase Assembly: Provides tremendous engine rigidity that's lighter and stiffer than two-piece designs.
Slant Detection Switch: Electronic switch stops engine and oil pumps immediately if watercraft becomes overturned.
Dry Sump Lubrication: Uses two engine oil pumps to deliver lubricating oil to each moving part with water-jacketed sump and oil backflow protection.
Yamaha Engine Management System (Y.E.M.S.): An integrated, computerized management system that controls and adjusts such functions as ignition timing, fuel injection mapping, engine diagnostics Electronically Controlled, Variable Ignition Timing: For exact ignition advance control at all throttle positions and RPMs.
OneBadWarrior said:The Apex motor is easily capable of 180 hp in factory trim. The sport bike version of the 1000cc R1 engine was tipping the hp scale at 180hp first year with FI. Yamaha could easily produce a 180 hp Apex if they wanted to with mild changes to the stock platform!!!
Yamaha needs to take the Watercraft engine (FX H.O) and management systems and put it in the Apex and Quite messin AROUND!
170 hp The FXâ„¢ HO is powered by a high output Yamaha MR-1â„¢ engine. This 1052cc four cylinder, four-stroke Yamaha marine engine delivers more power in a lighter package than any other full-size, four-stroke normally-aspirated watercraft in the industry.
Electronic Fuel Injection (EFI): Four individually adjustable throttle bodies, throttle position sensor (TPS) and intake air pressure and air temperature sensors supply the optimum air/fuel mixture. The results are a smooth, high power output with low fuel consumption and low exhaust emissions.
Specially Designed, One-piece Cylinder and Crankcase Assembly: Provides tremendous engine rigidity that's lighter and stiffer than two-piece designs.
Slant Detection Switch: Electronic switch stops engine and oil pumps immediately if watercraft becomes overturned.
Dry Sump Lubrication: Uses two engine oil pumps to deliver lubricating oil to each moving part with water-jacketed sump and oil backflow protection.
Yamaha Engine Management System (Y.E.M.S.): An integrated, computerized management system that controls and adjusts such functions as ignition timing, fuel injection mapping, engine diagnostics Electronically Controlled, Variable Ignition Timing: For exact ignition advance control at all throttle positions and RPMs.
Keep one thing in mind when comparing to a marine engine. They (marine applications) will always be able to cool an engine much more efficiently than any closed loop/air exchange system will. It doesn't matter how you look at it, HP = Heat.
As far as all of the other specs/features listed by Rightarm, I can see some definite advantages.
Perhaps someone can help me out on this one. Why is it the same basic engine on a bike (R-1) develops so much more HP than the snowmobile variation? There must be a reason they are "de-tuned". Anyone have any input?
As far as all of the other specs/features listed by Rightarm, I can see some definite advantages.
Perhaps someone can help me out on this one. Why is it the same basic engine on a bike (R-1) develops so much more HP than the snowmobile variation? There must be a reason they are "de-tuned". Anyone have any input?
rightarm
TY 4 Stroke Master
thegrizzly1 said:
1.Compression
2.More rpm
3.Dual injectors
4.Computer controlled velocity stacks
5.Bigger throttle bodies
I might have missed something?anyone
jlemieu1
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2005
- Messages
- 388
- Location
- Rosemount, MN
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 14 Viper LTX SE, 14 Viper LTX
My 2 cents, I bet they ran out of Vector/Venture engine block so they finally make them EFI.
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
I'd argue that a marine engine would make an ideal sled engine. Once you are using liquid cooling, it isn't difficult to design a cooling system to handle any particular engine (it just costs more with sleds vs marine).
Marine engines are typically pushed the hardest because they often are run flat out continuously. Sleds are very close in that they too can be run wide open for fairly long stretches. Bikes on the other hand are rarely run flat out for long so bike engines can be tweaked for a little more than marine/sled applications.
Marine engines are typically pushed the hardest because they often are run flat out continuously. Sleds are very close in that they too can be run wide open for fairly long stretches. Bikes on the other hand are rarely run flat out for long so bike engines can be tweaked for a little more than marine/sled applications.
DoktorC
TY 4 Stroke Master
The marine version is just an evolution of the original RX-1 engine (which was in the FX140 the year before the RX was introduced)...there's nothing special about it and it would drop right in. Cooling is more of an issue in the boat since it's closed in (under the seat) which also leads to breathing issues....which tells me it might make even MORE hp in a sled....oh..and don't forget the restrictive exhaust routing in the PWC too.....
The R1 engine on the other hand is completely different then what we are using now. It begins at the 4 valve head....everything is different. That engine also revs significantly higher to makes it's hp....the FX engine is where I'd look for future sled power..
The R1 engine on the other hand is completely different then what we are using now. It begins at the 4 valve head....everything is different. That engine also revs significantly higher to makes it's hp....the FX engine is where I'd look for future sled power..
sledheadgeorge
TY 4 Stroke God
My predictions for 09...........
1. Some lighter weight on all chassis
2. Suspension and chassis improvements
3. Production Race Sled
1. Some lighter weight on all chassis
2. Suspension and chassis improvements
3. Production Race Sled
rightarm
TY 4 Stroke Master
The engine in the Fx is more closely related to the 04 Moto G.P bike than the RX1 hence the designation M1,which is lighter and makes more power,this is essentually a bike motor in a marine application.Which is a 4 valve head with 1 piece cases.Intake ports are angled more than the RX1 engine too giving it a straighter shot to the combustion chamber.
