Helix / secondary questions

[WootTootViper]

I have an Ulmer “K” helix and the Black diamond “M2” helix from Bill mohrs kit. Can you please explain the difference and what I will see with each one? As far as secondary springs I have the stock black pink dot spring and an all red spring from the STM/Ulmer kit. I have an MPI LTX with 21/41 gears. Currently have the Bill mohr kit. It’s better then what I had but not great. Going to try the red spring with my dalton qay 70’s in the primary.

 

[twyztid]

I have the exact sled setup as you (LTX w/MPI turbo & 21/41 gears). I don't think the Stingray clutch kit is the right thing for turbo trail sleds (but... just my opinion). I think his helix is a 40/46 reverse angle helix. I am running a 48/40 Dalton helix with a Thunder Products Orange secondary spring, Supertips weights, Dalton Red primary spring, and Thunder Products 14.8mm primary rollers. It is working very well.

 

[WootTootViper]

I have the exact sled setup as you (LTX w/MPI turbo & 21/41 gears). I don't think the Stingray clutch kit is the right thing for turbo trail sleds (but... just my opinion). I think his helix is a 40/46 reverse angle helix. I am running a 48/40 Dalton helix with a Thunder Products Orange secondary spring, Supertips weights, Dalton Red primary spring, and Thunder Products 14.8mm primary rollers. It is working very well.

Yeah so far this is the best it’s ever been. My favorite primary weights Iv had were the daltons but I tried to mix those with the Ulmer clutch kit which did not work at all. I think I’m going to try the dalton weights with the M2 secondary. I’m hoping it will work because the dalton qay 70’s hit late and hard. I’m hoping the reverse helix will even them out and pull strong but idk. I talked to bill and he would not give me numbers on the M2 helix. All he said was the middle of the helix was 43 degrees (stock) and it was cut short in the the front to raise rpm and tall up top to achieve higher top speed and keep the rpms tame. I’m betting stock helix and dalton weights would make me happy. I don’t have a stock helix and they are pretty proud of them. Going to try dalton next trip. I currently went for 3-3 to 6-1 and in the short burst down the trail it seemed happier. I know I much prefer that back shift.

 

[twyztid]

I am pretty sure that M2 helix is a 40/46

 

[ClutchMaster]

I am pretty sure that M2 helix is a 40/46

Gotta love all the secrecy.....you buy a product that doesn’t even work to your satisfaction and he won’t even tell you what angles are cut on the helix.

FYI you can hold a protractor alongside your helix and get within a couple degrees idea of what ya got.

When running straight, progressive or reverse progressive it really depends on the profile of the weight. Generally speaking a very aggressive profile weight like the STM Y’s will require larger split progressive helix. Stock weights need more of a reverse cut helix and Dalton’s are profiled more for a straight cut helix. That’s just a general rule of thumb, it also depends on weight placement, springs, gearing, ect.

 

[WootTootViper]

Gotta love all the secrecy.....you buy a product that doesn’t even work to your satisfaction and he won’t even tell you what angles are cut on the helix.

FYI you can hold a protractor alongside your helix and get within a couple degrees idea of what ya got.

When running straight, progressive or reverse progressive it really depends on the profile of the weight. Generally speaking a very aggressive profile weight like the STM Y’s will require larger split progressive helix. Stock weights need more of a reverse cut helix and Dalton’s are profiled more for a straight cut helix. That’s just a general rule of thumb, it also depends on weight placement, springs, gearing, ect.

yeah I’m done trying all these fancy clutch kits that are supposed to cure all my problems and I’m trying to learn about it now. I know I like the dalton weights especially their adjustability and the fact you can do it with the clutch totally assembled on the side of the trail. I’m starting with those and the red dalton primary spring and I’m going to try it with the M2 helix but I may have a line on a used stock helix for a decent price. And just use those as base lines and adjust from there.

 

[TD Max]

Not sure it makes any difference, but the Black Diamond helix in my experience are just plain cheap and you get what you pay for. The holes do not align quite right (close but not right) with other mfrs helix.

 

[BRLoftus25]

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[twyztid]

You may be better off just getting the stock helix and putting it in. If you really DO have a reverse angle helix, you may never get it where you want it for groomed trail riding.

 

[twyztid]

I have a VERY low-mile stock 43-degree helix that I may be willing to sell. I believe it was taken off the sled when it was new. I bought the sled with 46 miles on it and it already had an STM roller secondary on it. What would it be worth to you? I am running the stock secondary now but with a Dalton 48/40 helix.

 

[TPAY243]

What was wrong with the Ullmer kit? If you would have contacted him and explained your problems he probably would have been able to get you fixed up over the phone. You can't use bits and pieces from 3 different kits and expect to have something fall in your lap. There's a lot to know about clutching and more than one way to get there. You said you liked the Dalton weight so what helix do you need to work with those weights? If you don't know you'll waste a lot of money trying to find the right one. If it was me I would put Ullmers kit back in and have him help you get it were you want it.

 

[srvfan]

What was wrong with the Ullmer kit? If you would have contacted him and explained your problems he probably would have been able to get you fixed up over the phone. You can't use bits and pieces from 3 different kits and expect to have something fall in your lap. There's a lot to know about clutching and more than one way to get there. You said you liked the Dalton weight so what helix do you need to work with those weights? If you don't know you'll waste a lot of money trying to find the right one. If it was me I would put Ullmers kit back in and have him help you get it were you want it.

yeh, you could put a Ford motor in a Chevy, with a Chrysler carb but just cause you could doesn't mean you should. You could keep switching things forever and might hit upon something better but personally I don't have that kind of time..... do like how you can adjust the Daltons though

 

[WootTootViper]

You may be better off just getting the stock helix and putting it in. If you really DO have a reverse angle helix, you may never get it where you want it for groomed trail riding.

Picked up my stock one from the original owner of the snowmobile. I’m going to throw it in tomorrow and give it a rip.