Picked up a 2014 LTX on Saturday, 22 Mar. We have a lot of snow and clubs are still grooming, so I put on about 100 miles over the weekend. I purposely rode the Tug Hill main corridor trails late Saturday afternoon/early evening to get an idea how the chassis would work on junk trails. In a word -- superb! It sucks up the bumps unlike any other sled I have ridden. I'm coming off an 06 Apex, what a difference! Comparisons as follows:
Engine: Obviously Apex wins here. I wish the Apex engine was in the new chassis. This Viper feels slow somehow, but it might be deceiving because of the completely different feel of the sled. The couple of Nytros I have lake raced with my Apex were right behind me at the end; I don't think the Viper would even be close. I did get the Viper speedo up to 86 mph on a groomed trail (temp was above freezing so snow was soft), there was just a little left to go but I ran out of safe trail.
Ride: Viper hands down on anything except groomed trails.
Handling/Cornering: Right now as it was delivered from the dealer, the Viper seems to push in the corners and also in the fields off trail. My Apex absolutely rails around corners on groomed trails. The Viper does not dart like my Apex used to, but perhaps this was due to the snow conditions and temperature.
Storage: Apex. I carry a spare belt (never needed), extra tool bag (never needed), a quart of Yamalube (never needed), tow rope (certainly never needed, but I ride with "lesser" machines), extra gloves/face mask. With the Viper, there is almost no storage whatsoever. I don't think I can even mount a spare belt on the belt guard. I guess I will get a larger trunk bag for these types of things.
Instrumentation: Apex. There is a lot more data available on the Viper, but all this is not really applicable when riding down the trail, and the coolant temp, or volts, or incoming air temp readings are too small to see while driving anyway. The Apex display is bigger and easier to read at a glance while driving.
Ergonomics: The seating position on the Viper seems just right. The Viper seat is harder than the Apex -- not better or worse, but it is noticeably stiffer. I like the adjustability of the hand/thumbwarmers on the Apex vs the on/off for the Viper, but this doesn't really matter in real world situations. The warmers get plenty warm on the Viper, and the left hand grip is noticably warmer than the right one. Wow, does the seat get warm even on low! Not sure I will ever use this feature...
Overall: The Viper (Cat) chassis is just too good to dismiss, but I think there is hidden potential locked away in the engine for this model. The couple of Nytros I've previously ridden with really rocked at full tilt. I've read a lot of threads on here about clutches, belts, ECU programming, etc., and it can be overwhelming and ultimately confusing as to what is really going on with this package regarding performance. I knew that it would NOT be Apex-like, but it doesn't seem to be Nytro-like either, which is what I wanted and expected.
I asked the dealer if they had done the chaincase/reverse upgrade from the technical bulletin, he said they never heard of such a thing and that they hadn't received anything from Yamaha. Anyone else experience this from their dealer? I emailed him the link to the PDF file found on this forum, I'll be interested in his reply (if he even writes back).
Regards,
Scott
Engine: Obviously Apex wins here. I wish the Apex engine was in the new chassis. This Viper feels slow somehow, but it might be deceiving because of the completely different feel of the sled. The couple of Nytros I have lake raced with my Apex were right behind me at the end; I don't think the Viper would even be close. I did get the Viper speedo up to 86 mph on a groomed trail (temp was above freezing so snow was soft), there was just a little left to go but I ran out of safe trail.
Ride: Viper hands down on anything except groomed trails.
Handling/Cornering: Right now as it was delivered from the dealer, the Viper seems to push in the corners and also in the fields off trail. My Apex absolutely rails around corners on groomed trails. The Viper does not dart like my Apex used to, but perhaps this was due to the snow conditions and temperature.
Storage: Apex. I carry a spare belt (never needed), extra tool bag (never needed), a quart of Yamalube (never needed), tow rope (certainly never needed, but I ride with "lesser" machines), extra gloves/face mask. With the Viper, there is almost no storage whatsoever. I don't think I can even mount a spare belt on the belt guard. I guess I will get a larger trunk bag for these types of things.
Instrumentation: Apex. There is a lot more data available on the Viper, but all this is not really applicable when riding down the trail, and the coolant temp, or volts, or incoming air temp readings are too small to see while driving anyway. The Apex display is bigger and easier to read at a glance while driving.
Ergonomics: The seating position on the Viper seems just right. The Viper seat is harder than the Apex -- not better or worse, but it is noticeably stiffer. I like the adjustability of the hand/thumbwarmers on the Apex vs the on/off for the Viper, but this doesn't really matter in real world situations. The warmers get plenty warm on the Viper, and the left hand grip is noticably warmer than the right one. Wow, does the seat get warm even on low! Not sure I will ever use this feature...
Overall: The Viper (Cat) chassis is just too good to dismiss, but I think there is hidden potential locked away in the engine for this model. The couple of Nytros I've previously ridden with really rocked at full tilt. I've read a lot of threads on here about clutches, belts, ECU programming, etc., and it can be overwhelming and ultimately confusing as to what is really going on with this package regarding performance. I knew that it would NOT be Apex-like, but it doesn't seem to be Nytro-like either, which is what I wanted and expected.
I asked the dealer if they had done the chaincase/reverse upgrade from the technical bulletin, he said they never heard of such a thing and that they hadn't received anything from Yamaha. Anyone else experience this from their dealer? I emailed him the link to the PDF file found on this forum, I'll be interested in his reply (if he even writes back).
Regards,
Scott
jedwards89
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I would speak to your dealer again. The reverse actuator recall has been out for a while. If he does not know it is out there, there is a big problem with the dealer. If that is the case, I would find someone new to go to. There are specific serial numbers that are due for the recall. You might want to check yours. I had mine done back in January.
Sled flat out handles, coming off a nytro this is absolutely awesome. You are right though, it needs an extra gear on the mid to top end. Some after market products should help that. Good luck with the sled.
Sled flat out handles, coming off a nytro this is absolutely awesome. You are right though, it needs an extra gear on the mid to top end. Some after market products should help that. Good luck with the sled.
stingray719
TY 4 Stroke God
ALL Vipers from the factory have a clutch issue, that is why you are going to find belt dust in your primary clutch with less than 100 miles on it. See my post on missing power found for the fix, its cheap and works. This sled will pull hard all the way up once fixed.
Short version, buy a green-white-green primary spring and make or buy a 2mm spacer for the spring. If low altitude buy 8FP primary weights (for the flatter profile) and see your sled gain a HUGE take off and speed increase. Works best with old Nytro 8DN belt.
Enjoy!
I use 8FS weights cut down for over 10k altitude riding, just an FYI.
Short version, buy a green-white-green primary spring and make or buy a 2mm spacer for the spring. If low altitude buy 8FP primary weights (for the flatter profile) and see your sled gain a HUGE take off and speed increase. Works best with old Nytro 8DN belt.
Enjoy!
I use 8FS weights cut down for over 10k altitude riding, just an FYI.
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stingray719 said:
CBR - I have a thread called my XTX Setup ride and review, check it out. I know I have the XTX, but this weekend I took Stingray's advise and his theory and tried a totally different setup for clutching. I was able to run 100 plus, but now I have total grunt off of the line with no picks and killing my setup Nytro with picks by 4 lengths easy! This along with an 8DN like Stingray mentioned....expect your forearms to feel some goodd tuggin!
I just read the entire thread along with Stingray's missing power thread - great info! I'm going to try this, hopefully this week.
Do you still have the 2 washers on the 3 secondary bolts, or none in your final setup?
Thanks,
Scott
Do you still have the 2 washers on the 3 secondary bolts, or none in your final setup?
Thanks,
Scott
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You know what, I forgot to add that....
I have everything out now behind the secondary....bolts and washers are in my tackle box of clutch parts.
Your welcome Scott
I have everything out now behind the secondary....bolts and washers are in my tackle box of clutch parts.
Your welcome Scott
Went for a quick 30 mile ride after work on Tuesday. Viper was good for 88 mph top speed at 8510 rpm on a perfectly groomed straight trail, temp was 28 F.
Seems like there should be more in there somewhere; I will have to change my clutch setup as identified above. Not sure if I will get a chance to evaluate this season, as a big warmup is predicted. Lots of snow, but it won't be in good condition for evaluation if/when I get the new components installed.
Seems like there should be more in there somewhere; I will have to change my clutch setup as identified above. Not sure if I will get a chance to evaluate this season, as a big warmup is predicted. Lots of snow, but it won't be in good condition for evaluation if/when I get the new components installed.
CBR said:
mine said the same thing. they ordered 1 just for me. also said they were not putting them in any other new sleds. not cool. and after they added 2qt extra during an oil change while it was there at the same time (you cant even imaging the mess that made !), i'm looking to use the next closes dealer 2hr away.
stingray719
TY 4 Stroke God
mewaschuk said:
VERY IMPORTANT: If you have a dealer you do not trust for expertise check the chancase adjuster yourself. The adjuster is spring loaded and the dealers finger tight might not be what your definition of finger tight is. Very easy to get chain to tight in these more than a few people in here reported chaincase noise after a dealer adjustment.
piped bravo
Veteran
stingray719 said:
stingray719
TY 4 Stroke God
piped bravo said:
If you have an 8DN belt laying around try it one day and see if you get even better performance.
YamahaTim
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CBR said:
You will see a lot more consistent rpm if you change to the 8DN. I have a thread on that. And with Stingray's clutch set up and the 8DN will make you happy!
weasel33
Expert
Are all the14's the same with the belt not going all the way to the top of the secondary?. There were 7 vipers at the show last night and all of the belt were to the top or within an eighth of an inch of the top. When I asked the rep about it he said that the belt being a1/4 of an inch down is pretty common and acceptable. Is that true? If it is you may as well cut the secondary down that little bit and save the weight of the rotating mass.
I will have the clutching changed as per these recommendations by next season, and I do happen to have an 8DN belt. If I ride again this year I will try it.
Went 150 miles yesterday, was able to reach 90 mph on the speedo, temp was near 20F on the same trail as referenced before with 88 mph. I believe it to be the snow condition, not that the sled is getting better each time. Viper handles the rough in the corners beautifully! Stays planted to the ground nicely, no ski lift in corners. I also rode a 2014 Ski Doo 600; I did not like it nearly as well as the Viper in bumps, corners, or the seating position. Maybe I just was not used to the ergonomics of it... Got back on my Apex yesterday as well -- the riding position now seems awful in comparison. I can only hope the Viper is as trouble free as the Apex has been.
Pending a huge warmup/rain/flood, I think we may have enough snow left to ride into April. I took this photo yesterday in Montague, Tug Hill, NY; 15 miles from my house (as the sled flies). Gotta love a season's worth of Lake Effect! enjoy!
Went 150 miles yesterday, was able to reach 90 mph on the speedo, temp was near 20F on the same trail as referenced before with 88 mph. I believe it to be the snow condition, not that the sled is getting better each time. Viper handles the rough in the corners beautifully! Stays planted to the ground nicely, no ski lift in corners. I also rode a 2014 Ski Doo 600; I did not like it nearly as well as the Viper in bumps, corners, or the seating position. Maybe I just was not used to the ergonomics of it... Got back on my Apex yesterday as well -- the riding position now seems awful in comparison. I can only hope the Viper is as trouble free as the Apex has been.
Pending a huge warmup/rain/flood, I think we may have enough snow left to ride into April. I took this photo yesterday in Montague, Tug Hill, NY; 15 miles from my house (as the sled flies). Gotta love a season's worth of Lake Effect! enjoy!
Attachments
CBR,
Which skidoo 600 did you ride?
Which skidoo 600 did you ride?
