Indy
TY 4 Stroke God
I still like my idea of carrying a baseball bat on my sled, (aluminum for you mountain guys), just not sure on how to install. Any ideas? Needs to be on left side of sled, and easily accessible, and not fall out.
About the time I'd do the baseball bat thingy some nutbag would take it away from me and beat the tar out of me it.
I wouldn't like that very much...
I wouldn't like that very much...
4Fighter
TY 4 Stroke God
Indy said:
Rivet a leather rifle scabbard to your tunnel.
Red2003
TY 4 Stroke Guru
How about a spring loaded piece of pipe about 4 feet long. Maybe hinge it to the left front of the tunnel (just not anywhere near the w-arm 
) and have it extend up and out to about 3 feet off the ground. Put an old proaction shock on it to cushon the blow to your sled and let 'er rip. I'm thinking some sort of cable release mechanism mounted to the handlebars. Should pop out, smack them up side the head, and bounce right back for a quick reload. We could even have a raised height attachment for the Rev and Fusion riders 
. Sounds like a money maker to me 
.
) and have it extend up and out to about 3 feet off the ground. Put an old proaction shock on it to cushon the blow to your sled and let 'er rip. I'm thinking some sort of cable release mechanism mounted to the handlebars. Should pop out, smack them up side the head, and bounce right back for a quick reload. We could even have a raised height attachment for the Rev and Fusion riders . Sounds like a money maker to me .
MOTOWN SPEEDFREEK
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
Ive been snowmobiling for 23yrs,Ive been using signals for 22yrs,I teach hand signals to All new riders I Interduse to snowmobiling ,GOOD LUCK,on the education.
Red2003 said:How about a spring loaded piece of pipe about 4 feet long. Maybe hinge it to the left front of the tunnel (just not anywhere near the w-arm
Oh yes, money maker for somebody http://www.lawsuits.com/
4Fighter
TY 4 Stroke God
For the record I am FOR the following signals:
Pointing, sleds coming, waving a trailing sled to pass, slow or stop, turning, and
(when not in the presence of on-coming traffic)
What I am debating is the use of hand signals to on-coming riders to indicate the number of sleds trailing, and a closed-fist to indicate "last one"
Not necessarily. Drugs are a serious matter, so is riding a sled in a safe, responsible manner and warning kids about drugs before hand, or teaching them, or new riders to ride snowmobiles safely are identical practices. Your analagy suggests that we should wait until the kids are out of control (people riding sleds too agressively and too hard) before we warn them - which is already the case with snowmobiling. All I'm trying to say is that:
1. Operating a snowmobile one-handed, in on-coming traffic, on often times bumpy or rough trails, and with sometimes hard to steer or aggressive skis, is dangerous. 2. Hand signals are a band-aid to a bigger problem. People seem to be unaware of the fact that riding a public trail system is a constant unkown - yet all you hear is 0 tolerance. "...RIDE HARD, RIDE FAST" If that's your philosophy, then no wonder we feel it's necessary to use hand signals (2 specifically). Oh, and please explain to me the importance or the signifigance of a closed fist?
I'm not saying that all signals are dangerous, but trying to execute them while sleds are coming at you has a higher probability of meeting with a crash or a fatility. There's also a higher probability that the first reaction a rider will have to someone screaming around a corner, headed straight at them, wil be to throw their brake hand up in the air, instead of taking evasive action with both hands.
BTW: Most drivers can safely activate turn signals while keeping both hands on the steering wheel - can you give a hand signal in on-coming snowmobile traffic, on a moderately bumpy trail, or while fish-tailing, while maintaining control of your sled using both hands? Will your left foot reach the brake if you have to stop abruptly? Perhaps turn signals became available in 1939 to aid driver communication so it didn't have to be done while driving one handed? Could you imagine trying to drive out of a rut to turn, with your arm hanging out the window?
Budget cuts do enough of that already.
In keeping with what started this topic:
Consider that there will be varying conditions, various sleds, and riders of varying ability who do not feel comfortable riding their machine one-handed, especially in on-coming traffic. If you're accustomed to using them, then use them - I have nothing against you personally if you do either. But don't assume other riders to be arrogant if they'd rather ride by you with both hands on the bar. Instead, respect that rider's choice. You'll just have to revert to using something you shouldv'e been using all along: Common sense - granted some have more than others, in which case, no amount of signalling will prevent the inevitable.
Pointing, sleds coming, waving a trailing sled to pass, slow or stop, turning, and
(when not in the presence of on-coming traffic) What I am debating is the use of hand signals to on-coming riders to indicate the number of sleds trailing, and a closed-fist to indicate "last one"
Red2003 said:
Not necessarily. Drugs are a serious matter, so is riding a sled in a safe, responsible manner and warning kids about drugs before hand, or teaching them, or new riders to ride snowmobiles safely are identical practices. Your analagy suggests that we should wait until the kids are out of control (people riding sleds too agressively and too hard) before we warn them - which is already the case with snowmobiling. All I'm trying to say is that:
1. Operating a snowmobile one-handed, in on-coming traffic, on often times bumpy or rough trails, and with sometimes hard to steer or aggressive skis, is dangerous. 2. Hand signals are a band-aid to a bigger problem. People seem to be unaware of the fact that riding a public trail system is a constant unkown - yet all you hear is 0 tolerance. "...RIDE HARD, RIDE FAST" If that's your philosophy, then no wonder we feel it's necessary to use hand signals (2 specifically). Oh, and please explain to me the importance or the signifigance of a closed fist?
I'm not saying that all signals are dangerous, but trying to execute them while sleds are coming at you has a higher probability of meeting with a crash or a fatility. There's also a higher probability that the first reaction a rider will have to someone screaming around a corner, headed straight at them, wil be to throw their brake hand up in the air, instead of taking evasive action with both hands.
BTW: Most drivers can safely activate turn signals while keeping both hands on the steering wheel - can you give a hand signal in on-coming snowmobile traffic, on a moderately bumpy trail, or while fish-tailing, while maintaining control of your sled using both hands? Will your left foot reach the brake if you have to stop abruptly? Perhaps turn signals became available in 1939 to aid driver communication so it didn't have to be done while driving one handed? Could you imagine trying to drive out of a rut to turn, with your arm hanging out the window?
red2003 said:
Budget cuts do enough of that already.
In keeping with what started this topic:
Consider that there will be varying conditions, various sleds, and riders of varying ability who do not feel comfortable riding their machine one-handed, especially in on-coming traffic. If you're accustomed to using them, then use them - I have nothing against you personally if you do either. But don't assume other riders to be arrogant if they'd rather ride by you with both hands on the bar. Instead, respect that rider's choice. You'll just have to revert to using something you shouldv'e been using all along: Common sense - granted some have more than others, in which case, no amount of signalling will prevent the inevitable.
NY_Nytro
TY 4 Stroke Master
4Fighter said:
Come on..it's not like you are riding one handed for miles, its for second or two. And you can always put your hand back on if you feel unsafe at any point.
You never took your hand off the bar to adjust your coat, your sleeve, your face shield, etc, etc ????
Sasquatch
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I use hand signals as a safety gesture towards mostly my Sister who is not as fast a rider as myself. There is a gap between us most of the time which I close every once in a while just to know she is still mobile.
Always when I meet the group of riders. I signal there is someone behind me so they don't blast around a corner and take her out. I slow right down to let her catch up then carry on at my pace again for awhile.
I really would like to know how many accidents are because of hand signals. Seems to me drunks and open water are the most. Followed by headons and trees. Lots of people on here state that hand signals are a safety hazard but nobody can back that up with accidents caused by useing them.
So my comment would be do what you feel comfortable with. I don't have a problem with signals and don't see tham as a saftey concern. If I'm in the middle of a corner and need both hands to steer for whatever reason then I don't signal. The other 99.9% of the time I do.
I run in the lead, I run interferance. I feel its my job to let the oncomers know that there are more than just me. I want to slow them down and keep them on thier side of the trail. The sleds I meet sometime use signals sometimes not. It would be nice if the last in line showed that he was indeed just that. But if he don't he don't.
Its not for the oncoming I signal, its for those behind me. I lead I take responcability for the group. I signal to protect them. I run in the middle of the pack I still lead half of them. I must take into consideration my safety and the safety of oncoming sleds as well so if I can't safely signal I don't. I would think that hand signals are common sense. But everyones interpretation of common sense differs.
Common sense would dictate that everyone rides slow and on thier side of the trail. Reality says just the opposite. Hand signals are just a way to deal with that reality.
I'm not bashing those that don't use signals. Your choice and by all means if it takes both hands to control your sled then use them. If you are not comfortable taking your hand off the bar for a second because you will loose control or fear you will then don't. Just whatever it takes, stay on your own side of the trail and don't worry about my signal.
Always when I meet the group of riders. I signal there is someone behind me so they don't blast around a corner and take her out. I slow right down to let her catch up then carry on at my pace again for awhile.
I really would like to know how many accidents are because of hand signals. Seems to me drunks and open water are the most. Followed by headons and trees. Lots of people on here state that hand signals are a safety hazard but nobody can back that up with accidents caused by useing them.
So my comment would be do what you feel comfortable with. I don't have a problem with signals and don't see tham as a saftey concern. If I'm in the middle of a corner and need both hands to steer for whatever reason then I don't signal. The other 99.9% of the time I do.
I run in the lead, I run interferance. I feel its my job to let the oncomers know that there are more than just me. I want to slow them down and keep them on thier side of the trail. The sleds I meet sometime use signals sometimes not. It would be nice if the last in line showed that he was indeed just that. But if he don't he don't.
Its not for the oncoming I signal, its for those behind me. I lead I take responcability for the group. I signal to protect them. I run in the middle of the pack I still lead half of them. I must take into consideration my safety and the safety of oncoming sleds as well so if I can't safely signal I don't. I would think that hand signals are common sense. But everyones interpretation of common sense differs.
Common sense would dictate that everyone rides slow and on thier side of the trail. Reality says just the opposite. Hand signals are just a way to deal with that reality.
I'm not bashing those that don't use signals. Your choice and by all means if it takes both hands to control your sled then use them. If you are not comfortable taking your hand off the bar for a second because you will loose control or fear you will then don't. Just whatever it takes, stay on your own side of the trail and don't worry about my signal.
4Fighter
TY 4 Stroke God
NY_Warrior said:
Not while sleds are coming at me.
I'm not bashing riders who use hand signals either. IMO: It puts out a smaller portion of a large fire.
I can understand using those signals on wide, well maintained trails, but in the EUP of MI. they are too narrow and at most times too rough to do it safely. Unfortunately, it usually takes a few accidents for people to realize the need to change their habbits, and in this sport you don't always get a 2nd chance. Let's just hope that it doesn't happen. But it will - unless people change the way they ride, they will never expect that on-coming rider holding up their hand for all the sleds behind them.
This discussion is incredible. Sounds like too many people, too little playground. What you guys are saying sounds to me like you're talking about interstate highways.
I'm glad I don't have to deal with that.
I'm glad I don't have to deal with that.
BLUEDOG
Pro
Hand Signals
4 Fighter, I understand what your saying about riding one handed, but I for one typically lead groups of 4-8 riders over 3-4000 miles every winter. As a leader I appreciate oncoming groups letting me know appx. how many sleds to watch for. On some turns I am caught by surprise and don't have the time to hand signal the first rider or two... that's typically a group riding fast at us... I then slow way down or stop to let the rest of the group pass and then we go about our merry way.
I have thought it would be nice to have some bright orange numbers to velcro on to the left glove to indicate how many following. Just a thought!
Signals or no signals I am tired of these young 20 something riders that continue to pass on straightaways or the woods at 50-60 MPH as I'm slowing down to 15 or 20 to let them pass safely. It doesn't take much to get thrown at me... We ride as fast as we need to as a group and the occasional slowing down doesn't keep us from getting to our next stop or meeting up with our friends (safely).
If we could figure out a system to let oncoming riders know how many in our group it would be nice that only the first 1 or 2 would need to signal and the last rider finalizing with a fist. (preferrably a bright orange glove)
Gotta go to a golf outing, I wish I had more time to give further input on this...
Ron M
4 Fighter, I understand what your saying about riding one handed, but I for one typically lead groups of 4-8 riders over 3-4000 miles every winter. As a leader I appreciate oncoming groups letting me know appx. how many sleds to watch for. On some turns I am caught by surprise and don't have the time to hand signal the first rider or two... that's typically a group riding fast at us... I then slow way down or stop to let the rest of the group pass and then we go about our merry way.
I have thought it would be nice to have some bright orange numbers to velcro on to the left glove to indicate how many following. Just a thought!
Signals or no signals I am tired of these young 20 something riders that continue to pass on straightaways or the woods at 50-60 MPH as I'm slowing down to 15 or 20 to let them pass safely. It doesn't take much to get thrown at me... We ride as fast as we need to as a group and the occasional slowing down doesn't keep us from getting to our next stop or meeting up with our friends (safely).
If we could figure out a system to let oncoming riders know how many in our group it would be nice that only the first 1 or 2 would need to signal and the last rider finalizing with a fist. (preferrably a bright orange glove)
Gotta go to a golf outing, I wish I had more time to give further input on this...
Ron M
I think the hand signals need to go as they are feeble at best. Need another system such as the LED lights or the velcro numbers.
I just got off the phone with a company in Wisconsin hope that is spelled correctly. They are as we speak having their engineers looking at building this LED 2 digit sign for the left side of sleds. The product is going to have a blinking feature that the front and last sled of the group would have on the rest would have a steady on number assigned to them. We may have this product after all.