Yamadoc,you´re totaly right with the temp differences about intecoolers.
That´s what I´ve learned about IC:s all my life.
Horsepowers are increased AND makes a bit less deto risk on engine.
About watercooling:I think they mean waterinjection.
It has the same effect as an IC but cannot create as much horsepower
but the biggest differense is relyability.An IC is almost undestroyable.
Waterinjection must be taking care of,forget to fill up with water and the whole system breaks down. :!:
And what happens if the water freezes? :wink:
That´s what I´ve learned about IC:s all my life.
Horsepowers are increased AND makes a bit less deto risk on engine.
About watercooling:I think they mean waterinjection.
It has the same effect as an IC but cannot create as much horsepower
but the biggest differense is relyability.An IC is almost undestroyable.
Waterinjection must be taking care of,forget to fill up with water and the whole system breaks down. :!:
And what happens if the water freezes? :wink:
Hi Hooper..
Thanks for the reply..I was not sure on the posts about water cooling whether they were referring to water cooling the turbo.. or water cooling the intercooler.. neither one made sense to me as the temp of the coolant would be in the 180-200 F range and would defeat your purpose of cooling the air entering the carbs/carb.
I assume that water injection really means water/alcohol mix because of the the outside temp for the snowmobile..
Perhaps I misread or misunderstood what was being mentioned about the the water cooling . so perhaps someone could clear this up for me. :?:
Yamadoc in the UP of Michigan
Thanks for the reply..I was not sure on the posts about water cooling whether they were referring to water cooling the turbo.. or water cooling the intercooler.. neither one made sense to me as the temp of the coolant would be in the 180-200 F range and would defeat your purpose of cooling the air entering the carbs/carb.
I assume that water injection really means water/alcohol mix because of the the outside temp for the snowmobile..
Perhaps I misread or misunderstood what was being mentioned about the the water cooling . so perhaps someone could clear this up for me. :?:
Yamadoc in the UP of Michigan
??!!
hooper: Stop saying Intercooling stops detonation, It doesn't. An intercooler makes the charge cooler there by making it "the charge", which makes the motor run more efficient. The part you keep leaving out is that snowmobiles are operated in way colder air temps then most turbo charged vehicles there by make the motor more efficient. Also air-to-air intercooling is only at peak effectiveness at WOT. So the other 99% of throttle positions you are at the effectiveness of the cooler drops.
Now you made these set of statements
Number 1: water alcohol is a more effective way to cool a motor and the charge.
Number 2: If you use water alcohol injection you can run about 2 more pounds of boost on pump fuel then you can with air to air coolers. I know for a fact you will make More Hp with an injection system then air to air.
Number 3: last time I looked alcohol doesn't freeze.
Number 4: You only have to use the system at boost levels above safe pump fuel operation.
Number 5: You can add a system for 200.00, which is cheep comparably.
Number 6: the only way to stop detonation in any system is running higher-octane fuel. Air to air Intercoolers do not stop detonation. But like I already said, water alcohol injection does stop detonation up to about 2 pounds of boost above your highest safe pump gas boost level.
[/quote]
hooper: Stop saying Intercooling stops detonation, It doesn't. An intercooler makes the charge cooler there by making it "the charge", which makes the motor run more efficient. The part you keep leaving out is that snowmobiles are operated in way colder air temps then most turbo charged vehicles there by make the motor more efficient. Also air-to-air intercooling is only at peak effectiveness at WOT. So the other 99% of throttle positions you are at the effectiveness of the cooler drops.
Now you made these set of statements
And what happens if the water freezes?""
Number 1: water alcohol is a more effective way to cool a motor and the charge.
Number 2: If you use water alcohol injection you can run about 2 more pounds of boost on pump fuel then you can with air to air coolers. I know for a fact you will make More Hp with an injection system then air to air.
Number 3: last time I looked alcohol doesn't freeze.
Number 4: You only have to use the system at boost levels above safe pump fuel operation.
Number 5: You can add a system for 200.00, which is cheep comparably.
Number 6: the only way to stop detonation in any system is running higher-octane fuel. Air to air Intercoolers do not stop detonation. But like I already said, water alcohol injection does stop detonation up to about 2 pounds of boost above your highest safe pump gas boost level.
[/quote]
Where did I say that IC stops deto?hooper said:
If you run the same kind of boost and fuel with or without IC on identical engines,
do you mean that it´s the same risk for deto?
Why does the Arctic 660 turbo have an IC?
hooper: You talk about intercoolers then you say this
that's when you said it.
What I'm saying is with Identical motor's "Same compression ratio". There is a limit to how much boost you can run on pump fuel without detonation intercooled or nonintercooled. Once you boost above that level you must run Higher octain fuel.
Cat is trying to squeeze every once of HP out of that sled. The RX-1 doesn't have to have an intercooler. Did you know Cat is running like 23 pounds of boost on that sled? You know ho much HP the rx-1 would make on 23 pounds? By my calculation it would make about 318 hp "NONINTCOOLED" The crank in this motor would never take that ammount.
that's when you said it.
What I'm saying is with Identical motor's "Same compression ratio". There is a limit to how much boost you can run on pump fuel without detonation intercooled or nonintercooled. Once you boost above that level you must run Higher octain fuel.
Cat is trying to squeeze every once of HP out of that sled. The RX-1 doesn't have to have an intercooler. Did you know Cat is running like 23 pounds of boost on that sled? You know ho much HP the rx-1 would make on 23 pounds? By my calculation it would make about 318 hp "NONINTCOOLED" The crank in this motor would never take that ammount.
Hi Jason..
You are correct about the IC only really making a difference at WOT..BUT why do we buy after market goodies like a turbo..to GO FAST..My guess is that almost all turbo owners will spend more time "to the bar", than cruising the trail at 1/2 throttle..as I said before..a snowmobile engine spends a lot of its life at WOT with the engine at or near MAX rpm.
Neither I nor Hooper has said that any type of IC would STOP detonation..it only helps to reduce it.
A couple of other thoughts... you are also correct about the intercooler requiring more boost [ about 1.5#] to make up for the pressure drop in the IC itself..but all the turbos are capable of much more than 10# of boost..so you can compensate for the pressure drop in the IC by cranking up the boost 1.5# above your desired boost level.
I have enjoyed these discussions..and I hope all the guys reading it have also.. It looks like your turbo project is coming along fine {saw your pictures]...As we all know there are MANY ways to "skin a cat".. I thinks you have a unique approach and wish you and your buddies all the best with your turbo project.
Yamadoc in the UP of Michigan
You are correct about the IC only really making a difference at WOT..BUT why do we buy after market goodies like a turbo..to GO FAST..My guess is that almost all turbo owners will spend more time "to the bar", than cruising the trail at 1/2 throttle..as I said before..a snowmobile engine spends a lot of its life at WOT with the engine at or near MAX rpm.
Neither I nor Hooper has said that any type of IC would STOP detonation..it only helps to reduce it.
A couple of other thoughts... you are also correct about the intercooler requiring more boost [ about 1.5#] to make up for the pressure drop in the IC itself..but all the turbos are capable of much more than 10# of boost..so you can compensate for the pressure drop in the IC by cranking up the boost 1.5# above your desired boost level.
I have enjoyed these discussions..and I hope all the guys reading it have also.. It looks like your turbo project is coming along fine {saw your pictures]...As we all know there are MANY ways to "skin a cat".. I thinks you have a unique approach and wish you and your buddies all the best with your turbo project.
Yamadoc in the UP of Michigan
