Lithium ion Battery...please read

[Richard Hodgins]

No, they don't ALL do this Richard. Some work and some don't work, so it's important to do the research and read as much as you can on them.

Lots of us have had great success and enjoy a 12 lb or so weight savings along with a longer lasting battery. My old Shorai started the easy spinning 998 perfectly fine in the cold, my new one will do even better as it has a larger rating, and I also suspect the proper EarthX does as well. Obviously you didn't read some of the comments above or just chose to ignore them.

Not all of us use the back of the sled like a pack mule, some would prefer a lighter overall weight on the rear end, and not lug around a bunch of worthless unneeded weight, so we run lightweight batteries. Not only is the machine lighter to ride and throw around on the trial, the suspension is less taxed.

I think it depends on the riding you do. As the OP mentioned, he was up in Northern Quebec, -38C and saddlebagging. That's where I ride and type of riding I do.
If you're a lake racer and never bring anything with you, then it makes sense to get every possible weight savings, so maybe a more reliable lithium if they exist.
For my riding style (multiple overnights) and where I ride (Northern QC), I would never buy a lithium battery.

I have also added heavier springs to make up for all the weight with my Linq gas tank and bag.

 

[SledFreak]

I would not care if I put a battery in that is 5lbs heavier. These sleds are already heavy! What's the difference to save 10-12 lbs and you may have a chance where it wont start. I need one that is going to start my sled at -35 Celsius!

 

[sideshowBob]

As much as I like the EarthX batteries I must say if I was heading out on a multi day ride where the sled would be outside every night in -20 or colder nights I would probably bring a booster pack and install the OEM battery.

 

[JLR]

I recently put in a earth x and my sled was left out over night at my cabin with temperatures around -30 last week and it started, took a few tries for it to fire but happy with mine so far, have another one with regular battery and was about the same to get started in that temperature as well.

 

[sideshowBob]

I recently put in a earth x and my sled was left out over night at my cabin with temperatures around -30 last week and it started, took a few tries for it to fire but happy with mine so far, have another one with regular battery and was about the same to get started in that temperature as well.

Yes its been cold in our neck of the Woods! I think the EarthX are the way to go for the colder weather areas if you want a light weight battery.

 

[KnappAttack]

Just out of Curiosity I checked the user guide on NOCO's user guide for their batteries for use in the cold and got this, check the area about cold I highlighted in RED. It may be a great battery, but not if used in the cold with the Dynamic BMS program.


Dynamic BMS.
The product utilizes a dynamic Battery Management System (BMS) that monitors the internal lithium-ion cells and disconnects them if a fault occurs. The BMS protects against over-charge, over-discharge, over-current, short-circuit, over-temperature, and under- temperature fault conditions. The BMS also includes cell balancing to maintain voltage balance between individual cells to ensure optimal battery performance. The BMS automatically recovers from fault conditions without user intervention.
In extremely cold temperatures, the battery may be slow to provide power initially. If this occurs, attempt to start the equipment again. Repeated attempts will self-heat the lithium cells and allow them to provide sufficient power. In order to protect the lithium cells, the BMS will not allow charging below -10oC (14.0°F). Once the battery temperature reaches -10oC (14.0°F) or higher, charging will be allowed.
In order to protect the lithium cells, the BMS will not allow charging or discharging when the battery temperature reaches 60oC (140°F). This situation can occur with high ambient temperature and repeated starting attempts which self-heat the battery. Once the battery cools the BMS will allow charging and discharging.

 

[sideshowBob]

Just out of Curiosity I checked the user guide on NOCO's user guide for their batteries for use in the cold and got this, check the area about cold I highlighted in RED. It may be a great battery, but not if used in the cold with the Dynamic BMS program.


Dynamic BMS.
The product utilizes a dynamic Battery Management System (BMS) that monitors the internal lithium-ion cells and disconnects them if a fault occurs. The BMS protects against over-charge, over-discharge, over-current, short-circuit, over-temperature, and under- temperature fault conditions. The BMS also includes cell balancing to maintain voltage balance between individual cells to ensure optimal battery performance. The BMS automatically recovers from fault conditions without user intervention.
In extremely cold temperatures, the battery may be slow to provide power initially. If this occurs, attempt to start the equipment again. Repeated attempts will self-heat the lithium cells and allow them to provide sufficient power. In order to protect the lithium cells, the BMS will not allow charging below -10oC (14.0°F). Once the battery temperature reaches -10oC (14.0°F) or higher, charging will be allowed.
In order to protect the lithium cells, the BMS will not allow charging or discharging when the battery temperature reaches 60oC (140°F). This situation can occur with high ambient temperature and repeated starting attempts which self-heat the battery. Once the battery cools the BMS will allow charging and discharging.

LOL...I guess that's why we should all read about products before we buy them!
Its kind of like reading assembly instructions or operating manuals...we never do that either...thank goodness my wife does!

 

[KnappAttack]

LOL...I guess that's why we should all read about products before we buy them!
Its kind of like reading assembly instructions or operating manuals...we never do that either...thank goodness my wife does!

Right!
Now I'm glad I went with another Shorai lightweight battery and not one with a battery management system built in. And I also see now why EarthX builds their special SNOW battery without the BMS built in too.

 

[max rolph]

Could it be that your stator or regulator was already pooched or on its way? Balance circuits will try to protect the battery from charging if it is really cold out but in your case after presumably sitting all night the battery was good enough to start the sled which would have been the highest demand all day on the battery, and the sled should have been generating enough power to keep running on its own (you run off of the stator/regulator, not the battery), it sounds like the stator was already dying. Which meant that the sled was relying on the battery. I would imagine that once the sled was running it was no longer -30 in your engine bay and windchill only matters if the battery is in the wind (and it is really a rating for cold it feels, not an absolute temperature).

you could be absolutely right here as i never have my guage on voltage soo i never knew if it was charging till afte the fact battery was put in, ive got a voltage reg coming tomorrow, idid a stator ohms chk and it chks out soo im hoping the reg is all. also what would burn it out?? i lso did not pooch the fuel pump as i took it out and the ground spade connector was off and it just slips on and off... needed crimping tighter but i put new one on anyway and now its tight. turn key with charged battery and it goes to 43-45 then slowly drops until started but volt guage still only reads 10volts

 

[max rolph]

You know, I know you bought the NOCO battery which I thought looked really good, however the batteries with the protection and cell balancing do shutdown in the cold for their protection. Most of the EarthX, except for the one made for sleds (ETZ14C), and that NOCO you had have that balancing and shutdown protection built in.

My Shorai Lightweight battery does not have this built in and I don't expect this to happen. I got 8 years from my old Shorai lightweight, all in the cold weather on snowmobiles, including a couple years with it on the Winder, so I feel confident that the lightweight batteries like the Shorai, or the EarthX ETZ14C without shutdown protection will work fine in the cold weather and not shutdown.

Have you contacted NOCO to see if there's something they can do for you? It sucks that you had issues like that with that battery, but because of the problem you had, they may want to caution against using it in snowmobiles or cold weather on their website.

Your 100 % right Knapp, now it did start right up at -35 in morning in the trailer but then like they say it would shut off and wouldnt allow charging after -10, , could this have taken my regulator out?? it might have been going or gone before my trip as i never have guage on voltage and i made it 200k before i had to boost, which i just thought it was dead due to too cold. i never knew the noco shuts off completely at -10 or i would have changed it out before trip... soo thats why i thought it pooched my reg cuz of it trying to charge and couldnt.

 

[max rolph]

Soo here is cause and effect... the battery has a BMS just as Knapp said ( soo do not use one of these if you are running under -10C ), battery management protection, soo when battery gets below -10 it physically shuts off to being charged... it will discharge to start but then will not recover whyle riding.... soo being that it is shut off, it acts like there is no battery there at all to charge... soo when i boosted it... everything is good...but when you remove booster it basically spikes the regulator and fries it... if you leave booster on then there is no issue... or if you turn engine back off before disconnecting... its ok too. soo replace the regulator last night and everything is great. The fuel pump issue was not burned out as suspected... it was the damb ground wire spade connector wasloose and slipped off, just needed a little crimp to make it slide on tighter... i replaced it with new one anyway.... can you imagine it arcing as it comes off in the gas tank???? everything seams back to normal and voltage is reading 13.8-14 volts on gage.

 

[GR8BBQ]

For anyone who doesn't speak metric, -10c translates to +14F..... it's not THAT cold when these things shut off.

 

[Doc Harley]

For anyone who doesn't speak metric, -10c translates to +14F..... it's not THAT cold when these things shut off.

Yep, but didn't want to stir the pot, further.
Selling lithium ion batteries to snowmobiling industry never made good sense to me.

 

[74Nitro]

I've been using the Shorai for 2 years now with no issues although it's not often I ride when it's below -20 celcius.
I like the easy weight savings.

 

[NYTurbo]

You would think a battery taking a charge wouldn't get that cold internally